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Thread: Your vote no longer matters.

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    Default Your vote no longer matters.

    http://www.courierpostonline.com/app...79/1006/NEWS01

    N.J. lawmakers OK Electoral College move

    Friday, January 4, 2008


    By MICHAEL RISPOLI
    Gannett State Bureau

    TRENTON
    On the same day the presidential race kicked off with the Iowa caucuses, the state Senate gave final legislative approval to adding New Jersey to an interstate compact to skirt the Electoral College by requiring the state's electors to cast their vote for president and vice president based on the national popular vote winner.

    The compact might never take effect, and electors chosen this year will still back the winner in New Jersey.

    The legislation, passed 21-12, in effect circumvents the Constitution without an amendment by changing the way presidents are elected. The bill, passed by the Assembly in December, now heads to Gov. Jon S. Corzine, who is expected to sign it.

    Supporters of the bill say the current system disenfranchises voters because presidential candidates ignore smaller states or states where one political party has a clear advantage.

    Chris Pearson, who sits on the board of directors for National Popular Vote, a group pushing for the legislation, said New Jersey voters are treated "like an ATM machine" because candidates come to the state to raise funds but rarely address the needs of the state's voters.

    "We sit on the sidelines and we watch a few states receive all the attention," said Pearson, who also is a member of the Vermont state Legislature. "Every American should have an equal say in the process."

    New Jersey would join Maryland as the only states signed onto the compact. The agreement would take effect only if enough states come aboard to produce 270 of the 538 votes currently needed decide a presidential win -- making it highly unlikely the agreement would affect this year's presidential election.

    Although Electoral College reforms may be needed, the interstate compact is "a disservice to representative government," said Sen. Joseph Kyrillos Jr., R-Monmouth.

    "It is inexplicable to me that we would punt away our ability to have the people of New Jersey represented how they vote on the general election day," Kyrillos said.

    Senate Minority Leader Leonard Lance, R-Hunterdon, said if the states want to change the Electoral College, it "should be done in the appropriate manner" by amending the Constitution.

    Only four times since the Electoral College was established in 1789 has the winner of the popular vote not won the presidency. The most recent was 2000, when George W. Bush won the election despite losing the popular vote to Al Gore.

    Action on the bill was delayed in December when four Democratic senators -- all members of the New Jersey Legislative Black Caucus and from North Jersey -- held their votes because caucus chairman Sen. Ronald Rice, D-Essex, wanted to further examine the potential impact the agreement would have on black voters.

    "We don't see it being extremely harmful for us," said Rice, who was absent for the vote. The other senators who did not vote in December voted in favor.

    Reach Michael Rispoli at mrispol@gannett.com

  2. #2
    New Jersey Ambassador Admin & Founder JerseyDevil's Avatar
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    Leave it to the democrats to forget that we are a REPUBLIC and that each state votes for the president. This is NOT a national election! So base don this - why should New Jerseyans even go to the polls??? Even if NJ overwhelmingly votes for a person - NJ will just go with whatever the rest of the nation says. Why does New Jersey legislators keep wanting to give away New Jersey's sovereignty???
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    New Jersey Tour Guide Jersey Warren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyDevil View Post
    Leave it to the democrats to forget that we are a REPUBLIC and that each state votes for the president. This is NOT a national election! So base don this - why should New Jerseyans even go to the polls??? Even if NJ overwhelmingly votes for a person - NJ will just go with whatever the rest of the nation says. Why does New Jersey legislators keep wanting to give away New Jersey's sovereignty???
    I didn't realize you were that politically astute, JD! Very few Americans these days know the difference between a republic and a democracy and why the separation of powers between the state and federal governments was written into the Constitution.

    Interestingly, the one thing about the Constitution that can never be amended (according to the Constitution, itself) is that no state can be deprived of its equal representation in the Senate. The Senate was intended to represent the states (and have members who were true statesmen, rather than demagogues) and the House of Representatives the people. Originally, the senators were chosen by the state legislatures and the Constitution was amended to provide for the direct election of senators by the people. Then the senators were able to join the members of the House in bribing the voters to reelect them by providing more pork barrel projects for the people back home.

    Those who are trying to eliminate the Electoral College are attempting to complete the conversion of the U.S. republic into a parliamentary democracy. Our founding fathers were totally against that form of government and said so many times.

    James Madison, wrote that "democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."

    Alexander Hamilton said: "We are a Republican Government. Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of Democracy."

    After the signing of the Constitution, as the framers were leaving the hall, th a lady stepped forward and asked Benjamin Franklin, "What have you given us, Sir?" and Mr. Franklin replied, "A Republic, Madam, if you can keep it."

    Samuel Adams warned: "Remember, Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself! There never was a democracy that 'did not commit suicide.'"

    John Marshall, who was Chief Justice of the Supreme Court from 1801 to 1835, said: "Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos."

    During the constitutional convention of 1787, the New Jersey delegates were among the most jealous guardians of states rights and favored a plan (The New Jersey plan) wherein each state would have an equal vote in Congress. New Jersey had a relatively small population at the time, not like today.

    The Virginia Plan wanted representation to be based on population. At that time Virginia had the largest population of any state.

    What resulted (the Connecticut compromise) gave us our present system (or more precisely, our former system, where senators were chosen by state legislatures) wherein each state had two senators, regardless of population.

    That plan, as well as the Electoral College, was designed to safeguard regional interests and the sovereignty of the smaller states, so they would not be outvoted and dominated by the larger population states. In a democracy, the majority has the ability to dominate the minority and sometimes results in "the tyranny of the majority." Or, as the Marxists put it, "the dictatorship of the proletariat."
    Last edited by Jersey Warren; 01-16-2008 at 02:34 PM.

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    New Jersey Ambassador Admin & Founder JerseyDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keymanjim View Post
    ...the state Senate gave final legislative approval to adding New Jersey to an interstate compact to skirt the Electoral College by requiring the state's electors to cast their vote for president and vice president based on the national popular vote winner.

    ...Supporters of the bill say the current system disenfranchises voters because presidential candidates ignore smaller states or states where one political party has a clear advantage....
    I reread this thread. I have to say - this argument here by the supporters suggesting that in some way this is going to bring politicians to New Jersey is ridiculous.

    Tell me - why are politicians going to worry about New Jersey at all if all the have to do is worry about the NATIONAL election. Do they really think that they are going to waste their time coming to New Jersey if they know that New Jersey's vote doesn't matter and the only thing that matters is how all the other states vote???

    This bill signs away New Jersey's right to vote. This actually silences our voice.

    More than half the democrats don't even understand the electoral college and want to take away the states' sovereign rights. This obviously is a first step to it.

    Does anyone have a update on this compact?

    I really wish people would READ the history of the founding of our government and find out why things were done the way there were done. Read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers. More and more I am beginning to see the Anti-Federalists being right, because the democrats keep dismantling all the protections the Federalists initially put into place to prevent the Federal Government from becoming all powerful.

    Damn I wish schools actually taught US Government - instead of using the class as a way to recruit students to a particular political belief.

    New Jersey already just gets treated as a mere suburb of New York and Philadelphia.
    New Jersey is the only state honored by two resorts at Walt Disney World. The Beach Club Resort, modeled after Historic Cape May and The Boardwalk Resort, after Atlantic City. If the Jersey Shore is good enough for Walt Disney to recreate, isn't the REAL Jersey Shore even better for you and your family?

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