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Thread: 2008 Primaries

  1. #1
    New Jersey Ambassador Admin & Founder JerseyDevil's Avatar
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    Default 2008 Primaries

    Does the outcome of the Iowa Caucus and New Hampshire Primary really mean anything now that over 20 states have moved their primaries to February 5th, including New Jersey??

    My thought is that they don't. It used to be that you needed to win Iowa and New Hampshire to get the donations needed to carry you through for several months. But now - all anyone has to do is have enough money to hold them over till February 5th and concentrate on a number of key states - such as NY, NJ, California, and others.

    Giulliani for instance is using this strategy and completely ignoring Iowa and New Hampshire in favor of the big states.

    Now my personal feeling when it comes to the primaries is that all votes should be sealed until the convention. Return the convention to it's proper role. Have people donate to the candidate they actually feels represents them. Have the states read out who they ACTUALLY voted for at the convention - instead of casting their votes for the last man standing. I think that then the best man is more likely to come through also - because that person has actually WON the states - not been knighted after only 5 primaries because he was able get money based solely on having won the last primary. If people don't knw who won Iowa - people will give based on who THEY think is the most qualified candidate and not on who Iowa or New Hampshire thought was the most qualified.

    Any thoughts???
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  2. #2
    Moderator MITHRANDIR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyDevil View Post
    Does the outcome of the Iowa Caucus and New Hampshire Primary really mean anything now that over 20 states have moved their primaries to February 5th, including New Jersey??

    My thought is that they don't. It used to be that you needed to win Iowa and New Hampshire to get the donations needed to carry you through for several months. But now - all anyone has to do is have enough money to hold them over till February 5th and concentrate on a number of key states - such as NY, NJ, California, and others.

    Giulliani for instance is using this strategy and completely ignoring Iowa and New Hampshire in favor of the big states.

    Now my personal feeling when it comes to the primaries is that all votes should be sealed until the convention. Return the convention to it's proper role. Have people donate to the candidate they actually feels represents them. Have the states read out who they ACTUALLY voted for at the convention - instead of casting their votes for the last man standing. I think that then the best man is more likely to come through also - because that person has actually WON the states - not been knighted after only 5 primaries because he was able get money based solely on having won the last primary. If people don't knw who won Iowa - people will give based on who THEY think is the most qualified candidate and not on who Iowa or New Hampshire thought was the most qualified.

    Any thoughts???
    I think the idea of sealing the results until the convention is a good one.

    2 issues: How to keep the results secret until the convention. How to prevent tampering of "secret" results until convention?

    One way to give each area of the country an opportunity to be heard by the candidates is to have 8 regional primary dates (which would rotate in order each pres. election) and have these primaries occur within 2-4 months from beginning to end.

    One possible arrangement (based on latest electoral results):
    NE: ME, VT, NH, MA, RI, CT, NY (7) {65 electoral votes}
    Mid-Atlantic: NJ, PA, DE, MD, WV, VA, DC (6+DC) {70 electoral votes}
    Great Lakes: WI, MI, OH, IN, IL, KY (6) {87 electoral votes}
    South East: FL, AL, TN, NC, SC, GA (6) {85 electoral votes}
    North Central: ND, SD, MN, NE, IA, KS, MO (7) {45 electoral votes}
    South Central: TX, OK, AR, MS, LA (5) {62 electoral votes}
    Rocky Mountains: MT, ID, WY, UT, NV, AZ, NM, CO (8) {44 electoral votes}
    Pacific: HI, AK, CA, WA, OR (5) {80 electoral votes}
    Sincerely,
    Anthony


    NJ & You, Perfect Together

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    New Jersey Ambassador Admin & Founder JerseyDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MITHRANDIR View Post
    I think the idea of sealing the results until the convention is a good one.

    2 issues: How to keep the results secret until the convention. How to prevent tampering of "secret" results until convention?
    That is always an issue, however, election not used to not be the moment that you knew who was elected either. The votes used to be brought to congress and counted. That is for the presidential election. Again - now this is just a formality now that we know generally who wins by the end of election not.
    One way to give each area of the country an opportunity to be heard by the candidates is to have 8 regional primary dates (which would rotate in order each pres. election) and have these primaries occur within 2-4 months from beginning to end.

    One possible arrangement (based on latest electoral results):
    NE: ME, VT, NH, MA, RI, CT, NY (7) {65 electoral votes}
    Mid-Atlantic: NJ, PA, DE, MD, WV, VA, DC (6+DC) {70 electoral votes}
    Great Lakes: WI, MI, OH, IN, IL, KY (6) {87 electoral votes}
    South East: FL, AL, TN, NC, SC, GA (6) {85 electoral votes}
    North Central: ND, SD, MN, NE, IA, KS, MO (7) {45 electoral votes}
    South Central: TX, OK, AR, MS, LA (5) {62 electoral votes}
    Rocky Mountains: MT, ID, WY, UT, NV, AZ, NM, CO (8) {44 electoral votes}
    Pacific: HI, AK, CA, WA, OR (5) {80 electoral votes}
    I don't really like regionalizing the elections. ALL states should be free to determine when they wish to hold their primary. As you know - I'm for state rights. I don't feel the federal government should get involved with how states run their election, aside from making sure they are fair and accurate. We are not a national government, but a federation of sovereign states.
    New Jersey is the only state honored by two resorts at Walt Disney World. The Beach Club Resort, modeled after Historic Cape May and The Boardwalk Resort, after Atlantic City. If the Jersey Shore is good enough for Walt Disney to recreate, isn't the REAL Jersey Shore even better for you and your family?

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  4. #4
    Moderator MITHRANDIR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyDevil View Post
    I don't really like regionalizing the elections. ALL states should be free to determine when they wish to hold their primary. As you know - I'm for state rights. I don't feel the federal government should get involved with how states run their election, aside from making sure they are fair and accurate. We are not a national government, but a federation of sovereign states.
    That is fine. One thing that I do not care for is having such a long election cycle. It seems as if they have been campaigning for over a year already.

    I would like it if it did not seem as if it takes 2+ years to run for office.

    I think it may be worth considering giving everyone access (by gov't to all candidates) to media do so all candidates may explain their views/positions on any issues they choose to address. (There may need to be some type of limit to this {media access}, but I haven't thought of a good mechanism yet.) Stop having negative attack adds. Prevent any find raising. (This way candidates are not beholden to any particular fund raisers)

    Any thoughts?
    Sincerely,
    Anthony


    NJ & You, Perfect Together

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    long election cycle? i thought that thing never ends?

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    New Jersey Tour Guide Jersey Warren's Avatar
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    Quote: "I don't really like regionalizing the elections. ALL states should be free to determine when they wish to hold their primary. As you know - I'm for state rights. I don't feel the federal government should get involved with how states run their election, aside from making sure they are fair and accurate. We are not a national government, but a federation of sovereign states."

    Excellent summary, JD. I am as impressed with your knowledge of government and our constitutional system as I am of your dedication to New Jersey!

  7. #7
    New Jersey Ambassador Admin & Founder JerseyDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Warren View Post
    Excellent summary, JD. I am as impressed with your knowledge of government and our constitutional system as I am of your dedication to New Jersey!
    JW - I wanted to thank you one your comment. I have studied colonial, revolutionary and early American history. I do have both the federalist and anti-federalist papers. An excellent book that I really like is Decision in Philadelphia. Anyone who truly wants an easy, yet well organized book on how the Constitution came together - this is an EXCELLENT book.

    To be honest with you, I am unsure if I would be an anti-federalist or a federalist had I lived during the time of the founding of our Constitution. I believe that the only way for America to become strong was to band together as one country, which is the federalist view - the Articles of Confederation were just too weak and unenforceable. However, the Anti-federalists were arguing about state rights being lost and the states losing their power. I do believe, because of the lack of knowledge on our own history by Americans and a lack of understanding of our government by Americans, as well as the media, we are now approaching what the anti-federalists feared. There are now arguments about going with the popular vote, instead of the electoral college - again because of a lack of understanding by the general population.

    Some do argue that state rights were killed by Lincoln and the Civil War. Again I can see that point of view, and yet I do support the need to preserve the union. It's sort of ironic, the Constitution has about states joining he union, but no where did the founding fathers ever mention states leaving the Union. I have felt at times that the south should have been able to leave the union, but it would have meant the death of America too. The north would have most likely have split up also at some point had the south been allowed to secede.

    Under the US Constitution, New Jersey is essentially a country within a country. We are separate from NY and PA and all the other 47 states. The purpose of the federal government was to handle international affairs and to handle disputes between the states. This is why if you do a crime, such as kidnap someone - it is a state or local issue. Once you cross a state line - it becomes a FEDERAL issue. This is also the reason why the federal government could not just go into New Orleans after Katrina - they needed a FORMAL invitation from the Governor of Louisiana just as if they were a separate country asking for the US Governments help. Without the Louisiana governor's request it was ILLEGAL for the US military to go into the state in that capacity and would be construed as an invading military force. This is why states have their national guards, which are basically the state's military. Louisiana and Myanmar are very similar. Currently the US military has a number of ships off the coast of Myanmar i.e. Burma - but has not been able to help with the victims of that terrible disaster because we have not received permission to go in there. It took a long time for the governor of Louisiana to finally give the federal government permission to go into New Orleans.

    Many people don't like this - but I am a New Jerseyan first and an American second. I love this country - don't get me wrong and I proudly sing the national anthem, but I love New Jersey first and I will support New Jersey's interests before I will support another state's or the country. People seem to accept this attitude by Texans, but seem to have a hard time accepting this from me - a New Jerseyan.

    What is interesting is that many people don't realize that US States have more freedom and self government power than the so-called countries under the EU. The EU can dictate things such as a uniform drinking age, while the US government does not have that power. The only way we have a 21 drinking age throughout the US, has nothing to do with federal law - it has to do with Congress threatening the states with transportation funds. I am against this blackmail by the federal government.

    Another issue that has recently come up in terms of New Jersey is legalized sports betting in Atlantic City. It had been up for a vote again. There is only one problem - the federal government had passed a law that only allows five states to have sports betting. This law has never been challenged, but I do believe that if sports betting passes in New Jersey and takes the federal government to court, the federal law will be overturned as unconstitutional. This law goes against several items in the constitution and should be a slam dunk for New Jersey to win. If we didn't win the case, then I would say that state rights are truly dead.
    New Jersey is the only state honored by two resorts at Walt Disney World. The Beach Club Resort, modeled after Historic Cape May and The Boardwalk Resort, after Atlantic City. If the Jersey Shore is good enough for Walt Disney to recreate, isn't the REAL Jersey Shore even better for you and your family?

    Things to do in NJ: Attraction Guide
    Where to Stay in NJ: Hotel Guide
    What's Happening in NJ: Event Guide
    NJ Visitor & Vacation Guide Request Form

    AboutNewJersey.com on Facebook
    The Jersey Shore on Facebook


    New Jersey Proud!
    Let's GO RUTGERS and New Jersey Devils!!!
    The Proud to be New Jersey Teams!


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