Controlling Parents

[JerseyDevil]

I usually don't bring personal issues onto the board, but I was wondering what people's thoughts are on controlling parents.

I was brought up in a family where our views, even if our parents didn't agree - were respected. This was especially true when it came to my mother. Everything was a family decision - when we would be looking for a car - the entire family was involved, when we discussed vacations, again everyone was involved. We were also brought up to be independent and make our own decisions, but of course with guidance from our parents. We always ate dinner as a family. Even when my father would work late my mother would ask if we wanted to eat "now" or wait until he came home. We would always wait until he came home so we could eat as a family.

My cousin Steve on the other hand has grown up with my cousin Rosemary as his mother. She rules everyone in her life with the fear that if they don't do what she wants, they will be out of her life. I'm one of those people who is out of her life, but I have no idea what I did. Steve is 21 and is not allowed to speak to me on orders of his mother. She has told him that if she finds out that he speaks to me, she will never speak to him again and will take away his car, which she merely co-signed for, but he makes the payments on, pays the insurance and put the down payment on. Every time we want to do something he has to come up with some lie to tell his mother.

Steve, instead of writing out his own checks, gives his mother money and she writes out the checks for his credit cards and bills. When last year, her father was planning on moving to NC - Rosemary put their house up for sale and moved to NC. No question or discussion from anyone else in the family. When her father ended up not moving to NC but instead moved somewhere near Atlantic City, she again made the decision to move back up to NJ less than six month after moving to NC. They now live again only a block from where they lived.

Steve always comes to me and says "my mother is making me and I don't want to". Just last week Steve came to me and said that his mother was making him go to Florida with her to go to his grandmothers and he didn't want to. It was basically because she doesn't think his life is going the right way and she wanted to talk to him about it (granted his life has been in shambles, but there are many reasons I see for it). I told him that if he didn't want to go, she can't make him. He's 21 years old.

Just a couple of weeks ago he was looking for a new job and asked me to help him. I made a phone call to one of my contacts in Seaside Heights and he got a phone call for a job there. He went on the interview, came out and told me he got the job. When he got home and told his mother, she told him that she was forbidding him from working in Seaside Heights stating that it is a dangerous place. I don't know the last time she stepped foot in Seaside, the only place she seems to go is either her house, work or to gamble in AC. Anyway - what she was reading in the papers that was giving her concern, was Seaside Park and deals with the cops and the Sawmill. It was no where near where he got the job. So instead of making about $13 an hour at a restaurant in Seaside, he's doing something that his mother approves of better - working $9/hr at Shop Rite stocking shelves from 10:00pm - 6:00am.

One time we were going somewhere and we would be driving on the Parkway. He said he had to pay the tolls with cash and he took off his ez-pass transponder. I asked why and he said that his mother checks his ez-pass records to see where he drives.

Steve is like a brother to me, but I hate the fact that his mother doesn't treat him like an adult. But it's not only him. She controls her husband, father & mother and everyone else in her life. I think one of her problems with me is that she couldn't and can't control me. The whole thing though is that this situation is SEVERELY affecting my relationship with Steve. He doesn't think it should matter to me. But the when we can't do something because he has to come up with some lie to his mother it does. Last October we had plans to go to Canada. We were all set and the day we were leaving, he tells me he can't go. At first he told me that it wa because he had to work, but then later he admitted he was afraid his mother would find out - even though she was all the way in NORTH CAROLINA! Several times we were to make that trip afterward and each time it fell through. He was supposed to go on the cruise with me, that fell through.

On my birthday, he was over celebrating it with me. At around 10:00 his mother called and told him she wanted him home "RIGHT NOW!". I think she knew he was over here, because I'm sure she knew it was my birthday.

I've thought about writing a letter to my cousin Rosemary - but Steve doesn't want that because it'll cause a lot of problems for him. He supposedly wants me in his life, but is afraid of standing up to his mother.

Does anyone have any experience with controlling parents? He seems to not believe that his mother, if he doesn't do something about it now, we control every aspect of his life even once he gets married. It can actually end up destroyng his marriage too.

[Jersey Warren]

Sorry, JD, I accidentally put my reply into your post instead of adding a separate reply. I've now corrected that error through an edit.

What a story!


I feel bad for your cousin, Steve, but he has to accept most of the blame for letting his mother treat him that way. My own father was a very controlling man, but not nearly so bad as Rosemary. The worst thing he did: He thought I should become a dentist, so to please him, I majored in Biology in college. Biology majors had to take Calculus, which I just couldn't get. I failed and dropped out of college. When I moved back home, my Dad pressured me to work for him in his business. When that didn't work out, I got a job on my own. He retaliated by charging me room and board that amounted to almost half my take-home pay. I rebelled by getting married at the age of 19 and never took a dime from my parents again.

Your cousin Steve absoutely HAS to get away from his controlling mother, if he is ever going to hold his head up and become a man. If I were you, I'd ask him if he wants to camp out with me until he can save up enough money for a place of his own. He also needs to contact the bank or finance company for his car loan and tell them to send the bill to him and make sure the abstract title is in his name. (A mere co-signer should not have claim to the title, just liability for the loan.) He needs his own checking account and to build credit in his own name, as well.

I have had experience dealing with controlling people and they take advantage of any compromises and manage to weasel their way into their "controllee's" lives and assert control again. Nothing less than complete separation and a personal "declaration of independence" works. Such people are masters of emotional blackmail ("If you loved me, you would...") and playing the role of the martyr (My son is so ungrateful after ALL I did for him..."). The person who wants to be free of them needs to steel themselves and learn to resist this emotional blackmail.

Most of the time, they learn that if they want to have their loved ones in their lives, they need to treat them with respect. If not, then that is their own fault. When my father saw little of his sons for tens years or so, he eventually learned to treat them better and not be so domineering. He has been dead since 1989 and I'm sorry I did not see more of him, but I'm not sorry I got out on my own when I did.

Good luck with this.

[JerseyDevil]

Hey JW - I meant to respond to your comment a while ago.

I have no faith in Steve standing up to his mother ever. I will always be on the outskirts of his life - which really sucks. Like I said - he's like a brother to me and yet I know for important events in his life - like when he gets married - I will not be invited - all because of his mother. I've often thought about dumping him out of my life - because it is so painful.

His brother Joe last summer backstabbed me - and Steve - by telling his mother that I had asked Steve to move in - which Steve was considering. Joe managed to wait until the day Steve was going down to NC - so as soon as he walked in the house - his mother *****ed him out for hours about it and I got a little e-mail from her telling me to never speak to her sons and to get my life in order. I responded back that she should worry about her life and stop worrying about mine. That obviously pissed her off because she has control over everyone in her life - even her brother - who is older than her and who I sometimes do things with He won't mention anything we do in her presence though nor speak my name in front of her because he doesn't want to face the wraith of Rosemary (he's actually told me this while at the same time insisting that Rosemary has no control over him and that he does what he wants).

Anyway - for a year I haven't contacted Joe on AIM or anything and today I decided to. Steve told me that I shouldn't contact him again because Joe told Rosemary and she's pissed and Joe hates me and wants nothing to do with me - for whatever reason (this is the same person who used to call his OWN mother - Hitler). Steve shouldn't have really told me that - because I was just going to let it drop. But now that I know Rosemary knows and is upset - it makes me just want to contact him more. I love pissing off control freaks - because they get so frustrated because the one person they can never control is me. She's used to getting her way and she knows she can't with me. She knows Steve talks to me - and I know that it pisses her off.

Rosemary in my opinion has serious mental problems - I may suffer from depression (yes I suffer from depression), but I don't try to control everyone in my life. I try helping people. I've helped Steve a ton - more than his mother has recently. Steve has a gambling problem - and while his mother *****es at him about it - I at least got him to go to Gamblers Anonymous and actually WENT WITH HIM - because he was uncomfortable about going by himself.

I'm not exactly sure what the problem is - I think in todays world - you're not supposed to be nice to people otherwise people think there is some ulterior motive. I should just accept that I'm better than them and whatever they think is their problem. It just hurts how much Rosemary despises me because growing up we were so close and she was like an older sister to me.

BTW - before Joe backstabbed me - he had a thread on here where he did the NJ Weather report.

I hate control freaks!

One more thing - the thing that is really strange about all this - is that when I was on Fox 29 - Steve told Joe I was going to be on. Joe ended up telling his parents and they all watched it - except for Rosemary because she had to work. That's basically what made me want to contact Joe - I wouldn't want to watch someone on TV who I hated so I thought it was rather interesting that they took the time to watch it.

[Jersey Warren]

This is a sad, sad story. Someday Steve will appreciate all you've done for him (or tried to do for him). If you think Rosemary has it in to you, wait until Steve finds a girlfriend he wants to get serious with! She'll sabotage the relationship for sure! Women like that do not want to share their sons with anyone.

[JerseyDevil]

This is a sad, sad story. Someday Steve will appreciate all you've done for him (or tried to do for him). If you think Rosemary has it in to you, wait until Steve finds a girlfriend he wants to get serious with! She'll sabotage the relationship for sure! Women like that do not want to share their sons with anyone.

I don't really have much faith that he's ever going to stand up. As for the girlfriend/wife situation - I've told him the same thing. When he was in high school he had already encountered it. He told me that he had gotten into an argument with his mother about his girlfriend because Rosemary no longer liked her. Steve told his mother that she always ended up hating everyone he got close to. Then he dropped the real bomb on her and said that she did the same thing to me. That he got close to me and that she could no longer stand me and didn't want me in his life anymore. She really blew up with that one.

The thing about him getting married - she'll be the controlling mother that bascially breaks up his marriage. There is no way a wife is going to put up with Rosemary and her interference. I told Steve - he'll be having a romantic dinner or doing something with his wife and Rosemary will cal him and tell him she needs to talk to him immediately and that he needs to come over right now. He'll pick up and leave his wife to do his mother's bidding. The sad thing is - he didn't deny it. He constantly says that I'm right - and that he needs to make changes - but he never does. He continues to be afraid of his overbearing controlling freak of a mother.

See you finally took a stand with your father. I did the same thing with my father after my mother died. Less than a year after my mother died, my father was introduced to this woman from Tennessee. My father was lonely and stuff and married her 5 months after meeting her. Well she was a control freak. She believed "children" should never question their parents or anything. I wasn't a child - I owned my own home for a year. She basically cut me out of my own families life because she wanted to control my father. She was basically after his money. I was even told I needed an invitation to come over to their house and I was no longer allowed to just "stop by". I overheard my father's wife (that's what I referred to her as) telling my grandmother that I should just get over my mother's death already - that it had been a year. My father couldn't accept that I didn't love her and I didn't consider her my step-mother or anything like that. Anyway - I ended up not talking to my father for years (not that I refused to talk to him - if he called I would have - I just didn't want anything to do with Jean). Anyway - my father is now divorced from Jean and is much happier. We've fixed our relationship and now we are much closer than we ever were. My father is more controlling than my mother - so we do butt heads if we're together for too long. I've always been an independent person and don't like being dictated to or told what to do.

BTW - when Steve was forced to go to Florida last month with his mother - he told me that my mother's sister (who is Rosemary's mother, Steve's grandmother and my godmother and of course my aunt - but who Rosemary has also turned against me) were discussing my father, mother and Jean. They seem to believe that my father was having an affair because he married jean so quickly. Now I'm not supposed to say anything to them and get the truth out there - because Steve doesn't want to get in trouble for telling me and that he talks to me (damn it's so laughable saying that a 21 year old would get in trouble by their mother for who they talk to ). Like I told Steve - my parents were in love and my father was not having an affair. I know when my father met Jean and who he was introduced to her by. I also know that my parents did everything together. Hell, my parents were leaving on a business trip for Atlanta the day my mother had her heart attack and we were all set to leave for NJ for Thanksgiving when they got back (we were living in Indiana at the time). Husbands who are cheating on their wives - don't take their wives on business trips - they meet their mistresses. It pisses me off that I have this honor code where I won't break Steve's trust - yet I want to set the record straight for these gossiping nobodies.

I guess the reason I'm spilling all this is that I really don't have anyone to talk to. None of my family lives in New Jersey. I'm at the breaking point with Steve and his damn mother.

I've thought maybe I should write a book.

[Jersey Warren]

Hi JD,

I've been thinking a little about Steve and I think the best way for him to break his mother's grasp and learn some independence is for him to join the military. Being that he's so submissive, he probably wouldn't have any trouble with the discipline and following orders, but he would transfer his allegiance from his mother to the military and eventually learn independence.

I wouldn't wish the present hopeless situation in Iraq on my worst enemy, but maybe a career in the Navy, Coast Guard, or Air Force would do him good. He'd have a roof over his head, three meals a day, clothing, and a paycheck. And, if he's interested, they would help him with future education, as well.

My wife's first husband was in the Air Force for over 20 years and the benefits are great. And after that, a pension for life.

It's something to think about.

JW

[JerseyDevil]

Well JW - there has been a big turn of events as of last Friday. Steve got fed up and moved in here. His mother is not at all happy. I'm frankly shocked to be honest with you that he did this. He has always said he was going to move in before when things would get rough, but then he would back out. This time I questioned it too. He didn't even talk to his mother today.

Anyway, his father is talking to him. His mother has now gotten his grandfather, her father, calling him to ***** him out - because she realizes that he's not listening to her. He let me listen to the voicemail - and I asked him if really thought that by calling him an idiot and telling him his life was going nowhere - if that was going to make him listen to them.

His brother called me and is betting that Steve will be back at his parents house by the end of the week. I really don't think so and I asked Steve - and he said no. I think Steve likes the freedom and not being *****ed at everyday. I guess it just shows you - everyone has a breaking point.

As for the military - he had joined the Marines - but he didn't make it fully through bootcamp. He has talked off and on about rejoining - but I told him that joining the military as a way of running away wasn't good. I would rather help him stand up for himself than have him running away. My brother is in the Navy - and loves it. He works for the aircraft section of th navy - so he's not on a ship.

[JerseyDevil]

Well - six months later - Steve is no longer in my life. A lot happened - his mother is still controlling and now of course he's engaged to someone who is just as controlling. When Steve got engaged - I was the first person he told and the first person to see the ring. Although on the day he proposed to Tracy, which was her b-day - we hung out and he said that I was going to be a groomsmen. I told him don't make promises he can't keep. Just as I thought - I'm not even invited to the wedding because of Tracy and his mother. He doesn't have the guts to stand up for me. It was finally at a breaking point and I haven't spoken to him in 2 months. Maybe someday he will stand up for himself - but I'm not holding my breath. He'll end up being miserable and he only has himself to blame. I was there for him time and time again. Always the first to know about the big events in his life, but because of his damn mother - never allowed to share in the celebration.

I don't really care anymore. He meant a lot to me - I really did consider him a brother. Now it's obvious he didn't care about me as much as he claimed. I was just someone who could bail him out of trouble during his gambling. Very few people know everything I did for him - and his parents are completely blind. They like the assholes in his life - the ones that encourage him to do things that will get him fired or in trouble. I have to face it though - it wasn't just them - it was him too. He made me out to be his scape goat. He acted one way around me - and told them all these lies about me to them. He used to justify it saying "well they will never like you anyway".

Things are starting to go good in my life. And I wish I could have shared them with him. He probably wouldn't have cared though.

I don't really think the marriage will happen. I know Steve and I know the reasons why he's engaged that he doesn't want anyone else to know. It's not for a year and a half. I have to face it - I was used and that's what hurts so much. I still care about him, but I don't think we will ever see each other again. I wasn't important to him, it was all that I did for him that was important. I lost my usefulness once he met Tracy and he found out Tracy's brother was a cop and could help Steve with his career - something I couldn't do.

If the wedding goes through - I hope that when he looks out at all the people there and when he opens his gifts and when he's at the reception, that he remembers the ONE PERSON who was always there - no matter what - the person who never judged him - who would meet up with him at 1:00 in morning because he was upset - that that one person isn't in his wedding.

If his ****ing parents only knew all the things I did for him - not that they believe it or even care. His mother is a control freak and his father is a wimp.

I don't really feel I have anything to lose anymore by protecting him and not being honest to people about what Steve did or how he acted. I kept his secrets for all these years. But who am I kidding - I'm still keeping many of his secrets. I know I'm a better person than him. Maybe he deserves the likes of Adam and Pete. He used to cry to me about how controlling his mother was and how he couldn't stand it - well now he seems to be dating that same type of person.

[JerseyDevil]

Rosemary just proves everything I say here. While I was away the last couple of days I was told that she had called people. I just mentioned it to mark - her son - and he said - well she's pissed about this thread. She just continues to prove how true it all is.

I moved this to a private area of the board before out of respect for Steve, but Steve is no longer in my life and showed no respect for me when he wouldn't stand his ground on me being in his wedding. I seriously doubt we will ever talk again. It just amazes me how much she thinks she can control people. She may have gotten what she wants with Steve, but she can't just get what she wants from me.

The thing is - I really have no idea if Steve ever cared about me. I keep hearing from mark (Steve's brother) how much he cared, but then that means that he just has no backbone to stand up. The final straw was the wedding thing. As I said - Steve asked me to be a groomsman after he proposed - which was on Tracy's birthday. I told him that wasn't going to happen and because of his mother and Tracy - I wouldn't even be invited to his wedding. I still care about Steve, but I'm tired of all this crap.

Rosemary is just a miserable person who has to control everything. When she doesn't like someone - she badmouths them to everyone and wants everyone she knows to despise them too.

[JerseyDevil]

I had to take this thread out of hiding and post an update. Steve did meet someone and is now married as of October 2nd. Let's see - I was the first person to know he was proposing - he had asked me my thoughts. He proposed on Tracy's b-day in Atlantic City. After he came back we spent the day together and hung out He asked me to be a groomsman, where i told him not to make promises he can't keep and that I would be lucky to be invited to the wedding with the way his mother felt about me.. Needless to say - he ended up marrying someone just like his mother - controlling.

I'm not going to go into the details. But I was disinvited from the wedding which was October 2, 2009 just 5 days before it was to take place. Why? Because I stood up to his mother and told her that my friendship with steve was between him and I. She had told him I was not to be invited to his bachelor party - although actually now - I don't know if steve and I were ever really friends. I just think I was used.

They are living at her parents house, have no money and are expecting their first child in July.

Anyway, he is out of my life now. His mother, with the help of Tracy, won.

You know something that is ironic by the way - his mother actually told me that Steve is the type of person who needs to be controlled to make sure he does the right things and that Tracy is just the person he needs. So if that's the case - then why was I the ONLY one who knew about all his gambling problems, not to mention everything else he used to do that nobody knows about? It seems like all her controlling didn't keep from racking up thousands in debt - he just figured out how to keep it from her. I know that he will just keep secrets from Tracy too. Not that I care about her though she got her wish - me out of his life. The thing is - she'll find out that I wasn't the problem.

I really did consider him a brother and I would have done anything for him. I guess I just didn't mean as much to him as he always claimed.

At least now I don't have to deal with all the drama of dealing with his mother and Tracy. I reread some of the past posts just now - and it looks like I said the same thing over a year ago. Well this time I don't see Steve and I ever talking again. I don't think I can ever forgive him for being disinvited from his wedding. BTW - his list - wasn't even his list of invites, it was his mother's list. She made that very clear. Steve didn't have a list - she was determining who was being invited from his side.

BTW - the Wednesday before the wedding, I got a phone call from the manager of the hotel where the reception was being held. Rosemary actually had the nerve to call him up to have my reservation canceled. I had planned on canceling it - just hadn't gotten to it. She basically made a fool of herself to the manager and showed her true colors. He basically called me up to let me know what was said and her request, but like he said - he couldn't cancel my room just because she wanted it canceled and if I wanted to stay there, I was more than welcome to. As I said though - I was planning on calling up that day to cancel it anyway. I had to laugh when I was talking to the manger, it was just too hilarious.

Of course then one of the big kickers was getting a phone call two hours before the wedding. Rosemary, instead of thinking of her son getting married, was more concerned about a friend of mine who was invited bringing my camera. TWO hours before the wedding she called him up to tell him he was not to bring my camera or take pictures of the wedding. I had to give my camera to him though just to see how much of a scene she made. When he showed up with my camera,, just as I thought, Rosemary was right there waiting for him and told him to put it back in his car. It's funny though - i do have photos of the wedding, even though she tried to do everything to have a control fit and prevent me from seeing it.

Then to top it off, I was accused of driving past the church right before my friend got there. That was a bit hard, because Rosemary's brother (who needed to borrow socks from me for a wedding I was disinvited to), my friend and I were talking in the parking lot next to my place (where I also gave him the socks he needed), and they left while I walked back. It was impossible for me to drive past there. When she mentioned to my friend and he said that I didn't - she didn't believe him. So then her brother was walking up and my friend turned to him and said - "so where did we just leave Bob?" And he told her, then supposedly Steve's brother Mark says "Oh I guess I was wrong, it must have been someone else."

Also supposedly, she had security during the reception to make sure I didn't come by. That's funny - I was out to eat with a friend and we went to the movies - to see Toy Story double feature in 3-D. I guess when you are controlling though, you try to control everything - so much so that even though I was disinvited from the wedding, she seemed to be constantly thinking of me.

[JerseyDevil]

Amazing. Steve's uncle, his Godfather, Rosemary's brother - has not been told that Tracy is pregnant and that Steve is going to be a father in July. The only reason it seems that he wasn't told was that this was one more thing that Rosemary wanted to keep from me. But then again - I knew several weeks ago that Tracy was pregnant.

I had texted Frank a couple of weeks ago, can't remember when, to tell Steve Congratulations. It's hard to believe that they would keep this information from him, but then again - this is the way Rosemary is I suppose - always needing to feel in control. Must be terrible going through life trying to control everyone and everything - and not having any control at all.

She got what she worked at for all these years at - getting me out of Steve's life and making sure I wasn't at the wedding. Of course then again - for seven years she actually believed I had been out of his life.

[JerseyDevil]

I just heard the Chris Daughtry song "Over You" on the radio and even though the song is about a guy and girl breaking up - looking back, this song really resonates with me in terms of Steve and all the **** I put up with through the years. I was always there when ever he was in trouble, even at 2:00am when he was suicidal, but the last thing he said to me was "You are not welcome or wanted at my wedding". He must have been practicing back-stabbing for years with those words.

Like it says in the song - "I should've started running a long, long time ago" For whatever reason - I actually thought he was a better person. But as I used to tell him - actions speak louder than words and his actions spoke volumes - I guess I just didn't want to believe what I saw. My ears and eyes are completely open now, too bad they weren't sooner. I guess I wasted a lot years worrying about someone and trying to help someone out who never considered me a friend.

When you find out that you were used by someone you truly considered a brother and would have done anything for - it really does hurt.

Over You
Chris Daughtry

Now that it's all said and done,
I can't believe you were the one
To build me up and tear me down,
Like an old abandoned house.
What you said when you left
Just left me cold and out of breath.
I fell too far, was in way too deep.
Guess I let you get the best of me.

Well, I never saw it coming.
I should've started running
A long, long time ago.
And I never thought I'd doubt you,
I'm better off without you
More than you, more than you know.
I'm slowly getting closure.
I guess it's really over.
I'm finally getting better.
And now I'm picking up the pieces.
I'm spending all of these years
Putting my heart back together.
'Cause the day I thought I'd never get through,
I got over you.

You took a hammer to these walls,
Dragged the memories down the hall,
Packed your bags and walked away.
There was nothing I could say.
And when you slammed the front door shut,
A lot of others opened up,
So did my eyes so I could see
That you never were the best for me.

Well, I never saw it coming.
I should've started running
A long, long time ago.
And I never thought I'd doubt you,
I'm better off without you
More than you, more than you know.
I'm slowly getting closure.
I guess it's really over.
I'm finally getting better.
And now I'm picking up the pieces.
I'm spending all of these years
Putting my heart back together.
'Cause the day I thought I'd never get through,
I got over you.

Well, I never saw it coming.
I should've started running
A long, long time ago.
And I never thought I'd doubt you,
I'm better off without you
More than you, more than you know.

Well, I never saw it coming.
I should've started running
A long, long time ago.
And I never thought I'd doubt you,
I'm better off without you
More than you, more than you know.
I'm slowly getting closure.
I guess it's really over.
I'm finally getting better.
And now I'm picking up the pieces.
I'm spending all of these years
Putting my heart back together.
Well I'm putting my heart back together,
'Cause I got over you.
Well I got over you.
I got over you.
'Cause the day I thought I'd never get through,
I got over you.

Watch Video on YouTube

[JerseyDevil]

I know it's been a while - anyway - I figured I would post the letter I gave to Steve when I saw him for the last time which was back in September. It had started out being a letter I was writing to give to him during his wedding, but we all know how that ended up. Instead it basically ended up being a good-bye letter because I knew that Rosemary had finally gotten her wish and she had finally won.

Dear Steve -

I just wanted to say I wish you the very best. I wanted to make sure you truly knew what I think about you. No matter what happens between us - I want you to believe in yourself. I have always had confidence in you and your abilities - even when you didn't. You can do anything you want and don't let anyone tell you that you can't. I hope you will have as much faith in yourself as I do in you.

We've known each other a very long time and I have enjoyed so many good times with you. Through the years I have gotten to know an intelligent person with many untapped talents. I hope you will remember me as someone who considered you a friend and who truly considered you a brother.

Anyway - I have a habit of saying too much sometimes so please just remember this - you will always be someone special to me and I wish you all the best. Most importantly - believe in yourself, even if you don't think no one else does.

- Bob

I gave the letter to him the day after he told me that I was "not welcome or wanted" at the wedding. I read him the letter out loud, and he asked if he could keep it. He said he wanted it because I had kept all the letters that he wrote through the years thanking me for all my help and support. I freely gave him the letter, which I'm sure he just took to show his mother and Tracy and imagine just ended up into the garbage. Who knows, maybe he actually did keep it to remember the friendship we once shared. After we started talking after a three month fight - he said that he always drove to my apartment and would park outside hoping I would come out so we could talk and patch things up. I don't think it's the case this time.

Anyway - he folded to his mother and Tracy and I was hurt beyond words by not being invited to his wedding - and he knows it. All I know is that I considered him a brother and it's hard to lose someone I was so close to. Whether I meant anything to him or not - only he knows the truth. And as I always said - I could only go by his actions.

[JerseyDevil]

A friend of mine the other day reminded me what Rosemary had started calling me as a nickname during the summer - "do-little" Why? Because she claims I don't do anything.

I have to now look at how much these people had destroyed my self confidence over the years - especially for the last three that I have lived closer to them in Toms River. The only thing I can think of as to why she called me that is because she is so unhappy with her life and she needs to bring people down to make herself feel good. She does truly seem pretty damn miserable.

To be honest, I find the nickname to be ironic now - considering that I was managing a computer department when I was 20, bought my own house when I was 23 without any help from my parents or anyone else, and I had been making six figures before I was 30 and I was always helping people out. That being said, let's look at her family - her son Mark is 27 years old, got a DWI several years ago, dropped out of college, and still lives with his parents, has no savings and continues to party as a frat boy - even going down to Cancun for spring break last year. Steve and Tracy, they both live at her parents, just got married, have no money and are already expecting their first child in July. Steve, Mark and their father all work at Wawa and until recently Tracy was working at the very same one that they are.

After four months of being out of their lives, I now realize how much they dragged me down and made me feel worthless. Now things are finally happening once again and I hope to be back to where I once was several years ago. I can finally believe in myself again.

Yeah I cared about Steve and was always there for him for all his problems, guiding him, giving him advice, trying to help him out and believe in himself. But now, after everything that happened and the way he sold me out to his mother and Tracy, not to mention the constant lying - I don't know if he really cared about me. Even though he said we were like brothers and I meant so much to him - I think it was just what I could do for him that he cared about. Once he felt he didn't need me to help solve his problems or bail him out of trouble, it was easy for him to just cut me out of his life.

I suppose I wasted three years trying to help someone who I cared about, while all the while neglecting myself and letting their problems and issues bring me down. Rosemary of course brings everyone down and if you aren't in her circle of approved friends she will work tirelessly to make your life miserable. I fought against her for years because Steve's friendship meant so much, while it ate at my spirit. I now wonder if any of it was worth it.

[njmusic]

I gotta say WOW this thread is like a bad soap opera I took 10 minutes before deciding to post here because you sound like you have a lot of feelings for your family as you should but in my opinion Steves mom is a witch who probably pokes voo doo dolls in the darkness of her bedroom before she sleeps at night some of them probably have your face JD
Steve is a mama's boy and will probably be for a looonnnggg time he is just working on mama #2 his wife I know the type there is hope however he can break out when his child is born if he starts caring more about the child then mama #1 or mama#2 he will probably get divorced because of it but it will probably be a good thing for him
In the big show of life family is important but only to an extent you should always keep your heart open for them but not at the expense of messing up your own life
Hope this helps well at least I hope it didn't hurt

[JerseyDevil]

Hope this helps well at last I hope it didn't hurt

It helped a lot - thank you. Like I said in the beginning, I don't like bringing personal matters onto the board, but this was a huge blow to me. I feel I wasted a ton of years trying to help him out. I hope now that things will be moving forward in my life. He is going to have to live with the consequences of his actions and decisions.

[JerseyDevil]

Is friendship ever wasted? I'm beginning to think that my friendship was wasted on someone who was just using me. I could have been investing my time in developing other friends, I could have been saving my money instead of bailing someone out from their gambling debts. I feel I should have just told him - not my problem. And now I continue wasting my time thinking about a friendship that is over and done with.

After having always been there for Steve, putting up with so much, bailing him out - I now feel that after seven months of not talking and the way he ended our friendship that it was all a waste. He most likely never cared about me, but only in the things I did for him. I don't understand how he found it so easy to just cut off our friendship as if it wasn't worth anything to him or phase him. Up to the very end he continued saying that "No one was going to tell him that he couldn't have me in his life" and that he was never going to stop being friends with me or have me out of his life and seven months later - it seems as if I never existed in his life at all. The sad thing is - I thought he was better than all this - I guess I was wrong though or maybe I knew the truth, but I refused to face the facts. I guess he truly is just like the rest of his family. They always say the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree - so why am I surprised then?

Time is a valuable thing - especially when it comes to the time you invest in people in your life. I understand this all too well - my mother died when she was only 44 years old and I wish beyond anything that I could once again sit down with her and talk. I invested a lot of time in my friendship with Steve. We only have a finite amount of time and even if 3 - 5 years from now he makes contact with me - it is all this wasted time where we weren't talking. Time we will never get back. Of course it doesn't matter if he never cared, because if that is the case, the only way he will attempt to make contact with me is if his life has turned to complete **** and he once again needs my support and advice. Friendship can't be a one way street - otherwise it isn't friendship, no matter how much one person cares. It takes two people to make a friendship.

I really don't know what to believe, I don't put it past his mother to have lied to him about things I said to her in order to turn him against me. But then again - if I meant anything to me - he would have asked me what was said. What pissed her off was that I told her that Steve and my friendship was between him and I and I was not going to discuss it with her. For one thing - I hold a lot of Steve's secrets and I know that she would have attempted to dig for information or I would have ended up telling her in order to defend myself.

Oh well - life goes on - whether the people we care about are in it with us or not. I lost my mother, the hardest thing I ever went through, I lost other friends, I will ultimately over come losing what I considered an important friendship with Steve. I guess I just wish I had answers - but even if I had answers, it wouldn't change anything. I know for a fact that Steve is controlled, and also that the only person he cares about is himself. He sold me out to multiple people to protect himself. Wishing it was different won't change this. If he knocked on my door tomorrow to apologize- who is to say whether it wouldn't be the way it was before?

All the friends I have lost under similar circumstances have all come back in their own time - but our friendships were never the same. The thing that changed was me - I stopped caring. I'll listen to their problems, but that is really as far as I will go. I don't go out of my way to call them or anything. I sill consider them friends, just not close friends like before. Whatever the truth is about Steve, the longer this goes on - the less I will care if that knock on the door comes or that phone call in the middle of the night.

[JerseyDevil]

I was thinking about starting a new thread for this - but I felt I would just post this here. I found out that Steve's baby was born on Friday - 3 months premature. I guess they had to deliver because of complications with his wife. I've been debating on texting his brother to pass onto Steve and to let him know "Life is too short. Tell Steve I said congrats and I hope the baby is okay". I've been asking people what I should do - so far everyone has said I should. Others have said I should go to his work and tell him personally. Someone said I should send a card - which is completely out because his wife despises me and I just don't want to cause any problems.

I was thinking - I don't want to end up like Steve's mother - where hatred and anger consume my entire life like it has her. As I said - life is too short. Steve was like a brother to me - and I mean that. I am still hurt and angry and everything else about the wedding, and the lead up to it - the whole groomsman fiasco. And yeah - both him and I said very hateful things to each other during that time period. I have no idea if he truly despises me or not - but I would just like to let him know that he is on my mind during this time.

That being said - I don't think there is anyway for Steve and I to ever be friends again. I just want to let him know that I am thinking of him and the baby - whatever it may mean to him.

[Jersey Warren]

You may be right in that you and Steve will never be friends again, at least not like it was. But it is obvious you are a kind and forgiving individual so if it is your instinct to congratulate both of them, that is what you should do. You can only do your best and others may appreciate it, or not, but at least you can live with yourself.

[JerseyDevil]

You may be right in that you and Steve will never be friends again, at least not like it was. But it is obvious you are a kind and forgiving individual so if it is your instinct to congratulate both of them, that is what you should do. You can only do your best and others may appreciate it, or not, but at least you can live with yourself.

Yeah - I know it can never be the same. As long as Tracy and his mother are n the picture, Steve and I can never be friends. Although like I said - I don't know how much Steve cared. Before they were married, his wife told me that she wished I was dead. There is no love loss for his mother or Tracy on my end - but a part of me still cares about what happens to Steve and what he goes through. Tens years of being like brothers is a long time. The anger over how I was treated had consumed me - and I just don't want to be like his mother - living with constant hatred, anger and resentment.