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Thread: CORZINE TAXES!!!!!!!

  1. #141
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    Default New Jersey taxes

    Hi Mithrandir, I am sure that is the case. And I have always thought that Corzine and Cody and the rest of his buddies have no idea what to do about the taxes or the deficit. After all, where do you get millions of dollars to fix the budget? The taxes are ridiculous. I agree with what you say about the private sector taking care of what it is responsible for. But the spending choices have been poor ones, some of them and yes high taxes will force some of the people out. Marianita

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    Last edited by ilovenj; 02-03-2007 at 10:37 PM.

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    The first are merely Corzine's own website. Not much truth with those. The last one however does bring out facts concerning Corzine, particularly as they apply to his relationship and dealings with Carla Katz.

    Marianita - eastern PA is only referred to as West Jersey because so many New Jerseyans move there to avoid the high taxes of New Jersey, but still live close to it. Many New Jerseyans however are moving to North Carolina and Georgia.

    As for Corzine giving the 20% tax decrease, it will only happen through bait and switch tactics. Taxes go down in one area, but are raised in another. Then they can claim 20% tax decrease, when actually it's just been moved to another area.
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    Hi Jersey Devil, I thought so but thought I would ask. I guess we just have to wait and see as regards the tax decrease.
    Hi ilovenj, I believe this board is here to present different points of view. We have facts, lots of them and we all see things a bit differently. Anyway there is no reason we cannot have fun on this board. I know I do. Marianita

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    Default Democrats have come through

    Look at today's paper. We have property tax relief. I am so excited that this was made possible by our great Democrats. Remember in November. They will need our support then. They deserve it as they came through. Mr. Corzine truly rocks. Remember, the laughable Republicans tried to stop this and keep the taxes high.



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    Hi ilovenj, How very wonderful. You have made my day. I will let my son in Marlton know right away. By the way God made Republicans too.
    Marianita

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovenj
    Look at today's paper. We have property tax relief. I am so excited that this was made possible by our great Democrats. Remember in November. They will need our support then. They deserve it as they came through. Mr. Corzine truly rocks. Remember, the laughable Republicans tried to stop this and keep the taxes high.



    http://www.thnt.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...702040486/1001
    We don't have property tax relief yet, nor is there any guarantee that "raises" in the property will be kept at 4%. All that is declared was that it isn't unconstitutional to have graduated property tax relief. I'll wait to see, before uncorking the champagne. Also, I would like to see if the taxes will just be passed onto another area.

    AG: Tax-cut plan legal
    Bill heads to Senate
    Home News Tribune Online 02/4/07
    By TOM HESTER JR.
    THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


    TRENTON The Democratic plan to cut property taxes by 20 percent for most homeowners is constitutional, state Attorney General Stuart Rabner said Saturday, deflecting claims by Republicans that it would be illegal because it would base relief on household income.

    The plan is set to receive final legislative approval in the state Senate on Monday.

    Rabner found income can be considered in calculating relief from New Jersey's highest-in-the-nation property taxes.

    "We conclude that the questioned provisions are constitutional," Rabner wrote in the opinion released Saturday afternoon by the Governor's Office.

    The plan calls for a 20 percent property-tax cut for households earning up to $100,000, a 15 percent cut for those up to $150,000 and a 10 percent cut for those up to $250,000. It would help about 1.9 million of the state's 2 million households.

    It would also cap annual property-tax increases at 4 percent. The tax has been increasing 7 percent per year, leading to property taxes that are twice the national average.

    The plan is the centerpiece of a 6-month effort by Democrats to cut property taxes.

    The bill's sponsors, Assemblymen John Burzichelli, D-Gloucester, and John McKeon, D-Essex, welcomed Rabner's finding, particularly with the Senate scheduled to consider the bill on Monday. If the Senate approves it, it can go to Gov. Jon S. Corzine for his signature.

    "This legal opinion is a legal victory for New Jersey residents," Burzichelli said. "It means that the tax cut of up to 20 percent can go forward and lawmakers on both sides of the political aisle can provide support without trepidation."

    He urged Republicans to support the plan and "stop listening to conservative lawyers."

    The Assembly voted 71-8 Monday to approve the plan, with 24 Republicans supporting it, but on Tuesday Assembly Republicans alleged the plan violated state constitutional provisions that they argued required all property owners to be treated the same.

    While they didn't file a lawsuit against the plan, they hinted one might be brought if Democrats either didn't revise it to provide the same relief to all homeowners or asked voters to amend the constitution to allow differing relief to homeowners.

    Democrats, who control the Legislature, scoffed at the claim, citing another constitutional provision they said allowed them to set property-tax relief as they saw fit and emphasizing how they want to base relief on income because lower- and middle-income homeowners see more of their money go to property taxes than do wealthier homeowners.

    Corzine asked Rabner for a formal opinion, and Rabner said legislative history demonstrates that the Legislature has "maximum flexibility to decide how to calculate such credits and rebates."

    Tom Wilson, state Republican Party chairman, said Rabner's ruling wasn't a surprise and referred to a Republican plan to amend the constitution to guarantee a 30 percent property-tax cut for most homeowners and a 20 percent cut for others.

    "It is a surprise that the governor and the Democrats refuse to make property-tax relief under this bill permanent by refusing to write this into the constitution," Wilson said. "They're once again kicking the can down the road and employing another election-year gimmick."

    All 120 legislative seats are up in November. Democrats control the Assembly 49-31 and the Senate 22-18.

    Republicans, in making their claim, relied in part on a 1976 opinion by William H. Hyland, who was attorney general from 1974 to 1978 under Gov. Brendan Byrne.

    Hyland concluded that a plan to give senior citizens a property-tax break was unconstitutional because it wouldn't be enjoyed by all homeowners. After that opinion, voters approved amending the constitution to grant property-tax breaks to senior and disabled citizens.

    Before Rabner released his opinion Saturday, Hyland told The Associated Press that Republican claims that the plan is unconstitutional needed investigation.

    "That is a question that can't be dismissed too readily because it may violate constitutional protections on preferential treatment," Hyland said.

    Hyland emphasized he wasn't declaring the Democratic plan unconstitutional, but was considering how the plan would deliver differing relief to homeowners.

    "I think that does raise a constitutional question," he said.

    But Rabner said lawmakers have "broad discretion" to decide tax relief and "the authority to calculate homestead-tax credits based on a property owner's income."

    "Thus, the State Constitution does not preclude consideration of a property owner's income when calculating a tax credit for local property taxes on homesteads," Rabner said.
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    Hi Jersey Devil, Atleast have the champagne ready to open maybe by Monday. We shall see what happens. Marianita

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marianita
    Hi Jersey Devil, Atleast have the champagne ready to open maybe by Monday. We shall see what happens. Marianita
    Actually I have to wait a couple of years. There have been numerous promises that the property tax problem would be solved once and for all and then several years later, we're in the same situation with the same promises. Instituting the income tax was supposed to solve the property tax situation. Well here we are again and have been here for quite a while again. Just because they pass something, doesn't mean it has any lasting affect.
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    Smile New Jersey taxes

    Hi Jersey Devil, I was hoping our champagne celebration could take place sooner. But let's be hopeful and see what takes place. Now if this is passed by Monday does that mean the property taxes will go down 20% right away? We could also bring out the champagne bottle in 2 yrs if you wish. Marianita

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    Marianita, First let me say ilovenj does not know what he/she is talking about! As reported in The Star Ledger even they (the editors) are skeptical. All the letters written to the editor believe in the long run Corzine and his Democrats are pulling our legs about this so-called relief. Even News 12 New Jersey has been reporting ALL weekend this will not work. I don't know who ilovenj is but it is best to ignore this person as they seem to have an agenda. If you look at everybody else who has chimed in on this topic we all say the same thing, that the Democrats must go in November and Cozine has done nothing positive for the state. Also ilovenj also says this mess is the fault of the Republicans, well they have not been in power in a while so how is it their fault? Remember everybody blames Pres. Bush right now for everything because he is in power, well I am blaming Cozine and the Democrats for this mess because THEY are and have been in power and things have gotten much worse! Again under their so-called leadership some of my family had to leave N.J. and some of my wife's friends are leaving this week. This has happened under the Dems. NOT Republicans! I agree with J.D. we will not know tomorrow if this works (if it passes) but in a couple of years, and by then how many more people will have to leave the state? News 12 reported it right the 20% is a fake number when you take into account no one will be getting a rebate check so that eliminates that money, and the towns can only raise taxes 4% each year meaning after 5 years the relief is gone. Actually they reported the numbers much worse then I did but I don't remember exactually what they said I think the number they gave to start was it would be 15% not 20%. One last thing ilovenj says the Republicans are keeping the taxes high.... the Dems raised our sales tax 16%, NOT the Republicans! Again I think we should All ignore ilovenj as this person has its head in the sand! P.S. If you would like a good idea of what is going on go to www.nj.com.
    Last edited by NJPRIDE; 02-04-2007 at 09:08 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJPRIDE
    If you would like a good idea of what is going on go to www.nj.com.
    If you would like to read the full Star Ledger, but are out of state - you can also subscribe to the online version. This is the FULL newspaper (ads, circulars and everything), but online. Check out - http://ed.StarLedger.com (note it only works in Internet Explorer) I subscribe to this because it prevents newspapers from collecting.
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    Hi Jersey Pride, I see what you mean. Especially when you say the republicans have not been in office, only the democrats. So how can the republicans get blamed? The whole situation is a mess don't you think? And it is true. Corzine has don e nothing positive as yet. I am going to subscribe to the Star Ledger. Marianita

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    I think Lordmarc had provided a link to this article from the Star Ledger, but I can't remember. Anyway, this demonstrates how the proposals to control property taxes and combat corruption has been great watered down.

    How plans for tax reform were pecked to pieces
    Five moments illustrate N.J. leaders' inability to aid homeowners
    Sunday, January 28, 2007
    BY DUNSTAN McNICHOL, DEBORAH HOWLETT AND JOHN P. MARTIN
    Star-Ledger Staff


    The double-wide wooden doors of Room L-202 in the Statehouse were shut tight, but they couldn't muffle the heated conversation last Monday.

    Inside, Senate Democrats battled over a proposal to establish a state comptroller, a cornerstone of the attempt at property tax reform.

    After a few hours, the lawmakers emerged from the room and hustled down one flight to the Senate chambers. They passed a resolution honoring the Rutgers football team and approved a study to consolidate local government.

    Then they went home.

    It was six months ago today when Gov. Jon Corzine and state leaders pledged to "get serious" about reforming the system that led to runaway property taxes.

    Corzine convened a historic legislative session, challenging lawmakers to attack the "sacred cows" that paralyzed tax relief. Legislators formed four committees, held dozens of public hearings and pounded out 98 proposals that filled more than 500 pages.

    The goal was simple: Reduce most property taxes 20 percent. Make it possible by cutting bloated pensions and benefits; consolidating some of New Jersey's 1,182 governments and school districts; capping yearly local tax increases at 4 percent; retooling the school aid formula; and establishing a state watchdog against wasteful government.

    But the proposals have taken a unusual route, even by Trenton standards.

    Instead of facing public scrutiny and debate in legislative committee hearings, they were hustled into Room L-202. Also called the Senate Majority Caucus Room, it contains a 36-foot conference table surrounded by brown leather chairs under a trio of recessed skylights. There is also a sideboard where chicken and pasta from one of Trenton's top Italian restaurants are usually simmering in chafing dishes.

    In that room, 22 Democrats, under pressure in an election year, whittled, molded and reshaped the bills for the Senate floor.

    What has emerged from that room in recent weeks is a reform package that looks vastly different from the one that went in.

    School district consolidation? Gone. A ban on pensions for part-timers? Forget it. An all-powerful comptroller? Hardly.

    Property tax reform is not dead. But even some party stalwarts say the process has all but ensured that New Jerseyans won't see the dramatic change they were promised.

    "Somewhere along the way, we lost our heart," Sen. John Adler (D-Camden), who chaired one of the four special committees, said last week. "On almost every reform effort we've deferred to special interests, and every time we've done that, we've hurt the public interest. We'll end up with higher property taxes, more homeowners leaving New Jersey, more businesses leaving the state and a bigger crisis next year."

    There is no single point where the plan jumped the tracks. But a few key moments in the past seven weeks illustrate how and why reform has stalled.

    DEC. 7: THE PENSION LETTER
    Corzine called it a "breakdown in communication." It was early December and lawmakers were struggling to meet their self-imposed deadline to achieve tax relief. Among the most critical pieces required was one that attacked the underfunded state pension and benefits system.

    Legislators had pitched 41 proposals, from raising the retirement age and hiking insurance premiums to banning dual-office holders and canceling pensions for part-time public employees. Together they would have cut costs to state taxpayers by hundreds of millions of dollars.

    A bipartisan group of lawmakers backed the concept. Thousands of union members and government workers were making plans to rally at the Statehouse.

    Then the governor, in a letter to legislative leaders, removed unionized government workers from the proposal, arguing the unions should be able to negotiate for their benefits. Senate President Richard Codey (D-Essex) and Assembly Speaker Joseph Roberts (D-Camden) said Corzine's action sent the wrong signal at the wrong time to lawmakers worried about controversial proposals as they entered an election year. Even allies in his party said reform was crumbling.

    Piece by piece, pension reform fell apart. By late last week, the pension bill had shrunk from 131 pages to 64; and the number of proposals to 18. Democratic lawmakers retreated to L-202 to "duke it out" over what to do about the rest.

    "What's left to duke it out over?" quipped Sen. William Gormley (R-Atlantic).

    Missing were the plans to ban dual-office holders, curtail pensions for part-time employees, and raise the retirement age to 62.

    "It serves no legitimate public purpose; it saves no money," declared Sen. Nicholas Scutari (D-Union), the chairman of the special reform committee. "I could not be more adamantly opposed to this bill."

    Many of the proposals have been crippled by party's slim majority. Only by getting support from 21 of the party's 22 senators can Democrats spare a floor fight and win passage. A coalition of just two senators in Room L-202 can hold a bill hostage.

    Said Codey: "I don't have a lot of margin for error in my caucus."

    JAN. 8: LEASHING A WATCHDOG
    Sen. Barbara Buono (D-Middlesex) realized Jan. 8, the first day back after the legislators' three-week holiday break, that the plans for a comptroller were in trouble.

    Corzine had first advanced his idea for an elected state comptroller while campaigning two years ago. It was the centerpiece of his ethics reform agenda.

    The state needed a comptroller, he said, to serve as a citizens watchdog over state and local government budgets.

    Almost immediately, it hit a road bump. Within Corzine's first month in office, lawmakers made it clear they would not support an elected state official answerable only to voters. So Corzine agreed to make the job an appointed post, removable only for cause.

    Even that was too much, Buono discovered. As Senate Democrats mingled in Room L-202 on Jan. 8, Buono overheard three colleagues from Hudson County discussing the bill she had sponsored.

    "A terrible bill," they said.

    Sens. Joseph Doria, Bernard Kenny and Nicholas Sacco, the mayor of North Bergen, believed local officials didn't need the state looking over their shoulders. Doria, who is also mayor of Bayonne, protested that local budgets are already scrutinized by other state agencies.

    "It was just adding a layer of bureaucracy," Doria said.

    Together, the three men wield enough power to halt -- or at least slow -- any bill.

    The Hudson delegation spent much of the next week negotiating with the governor. Late last Thursday, the Senate passed a retooled version, one that specifically says local governments do not need pre-approval to sign developer contracts, and one that limits auditing of local government entities.

    Doria and Kenny hailed the change as improvements. Corzine also endorsed it, saying, "It has all the powers of anything I had asked originally."

    Buono said the law "emasculates" the comptroller's authority. She not only withdrew her name as the sponsor, she bucked her party and voted against it.

    JAN. 11: THE LOOSE-FITTING CAP
    Three days after Democrats returned from their break, Corzine stood before a packed room at the Kelsey Theatre on the campus of Mercer County Community College.

    Dozens of people had lined up behind microphones to quiz the governor about his tax plan, specifically the proposal to cap annual increases in property taxes at 4 percent.

    The average New Jersey taxpayer had seen his or her bill balloon 6 to 7 percent each year -- more than twice the rate of inflation.

    Corzine had been adamant about the need for a cap, even during his annual address to lawmakers that week. He and lawmakers decided to package the cap proposal with the least controversial reform provision -- a 20 percent tax credit -- so it would have a better chance of success in Trenton.

    Many of the people waiting to quiz the governor weren't angry taxpayers looking for relief -- they were municipal or school officials looking to keep revenues coming. They wanted to be spared from the new limits.

    "We struggle every year to put together a budget," Princeton Township administrator Jim Pascal told the governor. "We had to cut four police officers last year, when there was no cap."

    For the first time, the governor acknowledged there would be exemptions so some towns and school districts could raise taxes as needed.

    "This won't be a hard cap," Corzine said. In fact, he went on, "I'm fearful that it is going to be so holey we won't get the savings we're looking for."

    By last week, Democrats had identified 27 categories for exemptions. After squeezing out the comptroller legislation Thursday night, Senate Democrats returned to L-202, sat down over pizza and began considering how to expand the list.

    continued...
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    JAN. 17: SCHOOL PLAN
    Sen. Stephen Sweeney (D-Gloucester) expected opposition, but not like this. More than 2,500 parents, schoolteachers and administrators packed into Washington Township High School, most of them enraged by the prospect of school consolidation.

    As part of their tax reform plans, legislators had proposed establishing a "pilot program" consolidating school districts or services in one unnamed county. With it, they hoped, would come the elimination of hundreds of school administration jobs, and possibly the saving of hundreds of millions of dollars. With 48,000 students in 28 separate districts, Gloucester was among the 11 counties considered for the pilot.

    The plan had received a lukewarm reception in the Statehouse. In early December, a planned vote on the proposal was quietly withdrawn when it became clear it lacked support. Some blamed the teachers union.

    "It just shows the NJEA is still powerful," said Sen. Bob Smith (D-Middlesex), sponsor of the short-lived bill, referring to the New Jersey Education Association.

    Critics were mobilizing people on the street. School administrators issued dire warnings about the impact of a countywide school system.

    "I walked into a convenience store and a woman's yelling at me: 'How could you possibly take busing away from disabled children?' said Sweeney, who is also Gloucester County freeholder director.

    In Trenton, Democrats had hoped to resuscitate the pilot program by letting county residents vote on whether to participate. The meeting at Washington High changed that.

    Sweeney told the assembled crowd that the bill could still be amended, but they hadn't come to listen. They taunted him and shouted him down. "A public lynching" was how state Assemblyman Paul Moriarity, also the Washington Township mayor, described the scene.

    The next week, Sweeney and Sen. Fred Madden (D-Gloucester) returned to L-202 and told their colleagues they could not support the pilot program provision. Without their two votes, Democrats lacked the majority to push the legislation through.

    Its death was complete.

    A second bill to target towns and school districts for elimination through consolidation got further. But by the time it passed the Senate last week, the authority to do anything more than propose which towns and school districts might be ripe for consolidation had been gutted.

    Sweeney now questions if homeowners really want reform.

    "What I found out with that countywide school thing is that people actually like the government they have," he said. "They just don't like what it's costing them."

    JAN. 26: SYMBOLIC REFORM
    Reining in school costs was supposed to be a critical part of the reform. Commodore Barry wasn't.

    John Barry was a hero of the American Revolution and founder of the U.S. Navy. On Friday he achieved another honor: He became a symbol of the tortuous path that lies ahead of any attempt to cut school spending and thus ease taxes in New Jersey.

    Property taxes, the largest tab by far for New Jersey homeowners, generate $11 billion for the state's 618 districts. The state chips in an additional $7 billion.

    Which districts get how much has long been a focal point of the tax debate.

    The Joint Legislative Committee on Public School Funding Reform was one of the four special committees established last summer. Its members promised results by December.

    No formula has been proposed. And one of the reform bills to make it to the governor's desk was rejected, partly in deference to Commodore Barry.

    The bill would have given school districts the option not to commemorate five patriotic holidays during the year -- a gesture that some supporters said would spare cash-strapped districts a small expense. When Senate Republicans complained about a slight against Flag Day, the proposal ended up back in L-202.

    With Flag Day reinstated, Senate Democrats pushed the bill through the chamber and sent it to the governor.

    He wouldn't sign.

    Corzine used a conditional veto, instructing Senate leaders to reinstate Memorial Day, Veterans Day, Columbus Day, Presidents Day and, yes, a day for Commodore Barry. Each, the governor said, "serves as needed recognition of the many great leaders who have helped form this nation."

    One lobbyist said the governor's veto proved the reform efforts have become a joke.

    "This was a well-intentioned mission, looking to reduce mandates, made a laughingstock," said Lynne Strickland, executive director of the Garden State Coalition of Schools, a lobbying group that represents dozens of moderate and high-income school districts.

    "The bill that emerged was simply symbolic to begin with. In the end it's symbolic of the way the process has gone and the way the property tax reform session has gone in general."

    Staff writer Joe Donohue contributed to this report. (Star Ledger)
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    Hi Jersey Devil, I can see it clearly now. The people of new Jersey do not like paying the taxes but don't want schools consolidated and jobs eliminated. Well, with good reason. I would be mad too. When things like this are done the quality of education goes down. I am sure there are other places to save money. I understand how people feel. Corzine is going to sign what he wants to sign and not sign what he does want to.I have noticed that Corzine gives money to places that can wait but wants to take it off universities. Education is very important. There seems to be a question of values here and poor choices. Marianita

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marianita
    Hi Jersey Devil, I can see it clearly now. The people of new Jersey do not like paying the taxes but don't want schools consolidated and jobs eliminated. Well, with good reason. I would be mad too. When things like this are done the quality of education goes down. I am sure there are other places to save money. I understand how people feel. Corzine is going to sign what he wants to sign and not sign what he does want to.I have noticed that Corzine gives money to places that can wait but wants to take it off universities. Education is very important. There seems to be a question of values here and poor choices. Marianita
    Consolidation of schools doesn't affect the level of education, what it does is eliminate duplicate jobs and makes things more efficient. Yeah, so jobs will be lost, but that has to be done to get out of the financial mess. The double pensions of politicians have to be eliminated, the fact that pensions are paid to part time employees is ridiculous. People are against the retirement age for state employees being raised to 62 when the national retirement age is 65 is another thing that makes no sense to be against.
    New Jersey is the only state honored by two resorts at Walt Disney World. The Beach Club Resort, modeled after Historic Cape May and The Boardwalk Resort, after Atlantic City. If the Jersey Shore is good enough for Walt Disney to recreate, isn't the REAL Jersey Shore even better for you and your family?

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  18. #158
    New Jersey Tour Guide
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    373

    Thumbs down

    Hi Jersey Devil, Well, I think I can see it. If they have to work until they are 65 they have to work longer to earn the pensions. simple as that. And if they don't want the retirement age to be raised to 62, at what age are they retiring at now? It is usually 65 or an early retirement at 62. Should it not be the same for everyone? I am surprised that those benefits are being given to part time employees. It just proves that some of the money is being is not being spent the right way. I know that elimination of jobs is most unpleasant but it happens all the time. That also contributes to a poor economy. Marianita

  19. #159
    New Jerseyan ilovenj's Avatar
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    Jul 2006
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    66

    Default Did someone say "Republican" hahahahaha

    Democrats are the reason N.J. is a triple AAA state. The highways are crowded, why because N.J. is a crowded state and we should be grateful that the Democrats keep it in great shape. I'm proud to pay my taxes, I'm proud of our Democratic Government. I hope they get lots of pensions, because they do lots of work, and as one said, it helps them understand the public better. N.J. is great, no thanks to the Republican. I cant help but giggle when I say " Republican" because they are such jokes.

  20. #160
    New Jerseyan davegering's Avatar
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    Jan 2005
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    Default

    God created Democrats first then worked out the bugs and created

    REPUBLICANS

    GIULIANI IN 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
    DAVE GERING
    MANAGER JERSEY STORE EWR

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