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JerseyDevil
04-17-2006, 12:14 PM
I've alluded to this in previous posts and now I think it's finally time that I posted a thread solely on the discussion of this ridiculous "north versus south" attitude New Jerseyans have. I was looking at the Trentonian today and it just completely makes my blood boil that in the sports articles that the Devils are reported as if THEY ARE the "foriegn" team, while it's all about the flyers. Let me ask you, how many tax dollars does the Flyers bring into NEW Jersey, compared to the Devils?

Now you may be wondering - what does the Flyers versus the Devil have to do with the North/South divide of New Jersey. Well this is a prime example of the division in NJ. SouthERN NEW Jersey will assoicate with a FOREIGN team that pays no taxes to NJ, does not help out our economy at all, while being completely unsupportive of the team that does.

In the artilcle there were several things that irritate me, irritate me so much in fact that I have called the sports room and am waiting for a call back. The biggest, number ONE irritant is the ridiculous North Jersey name - they even CAPTALIZE the "N".. Now tell me - can anyone find North Jersey on a map? When did North Jersey become a proper name? For that matter, when did South Jersey become a proper name? When did our state seperate and become two different entities (besides when it was East and West Jersey during colonial times). This is a NEW Jersey newspaper and they are incorrectly capitalizing the N in north.

Some people may think that my rant is a little over the top, but this is one of the key reasons why we have such a low sense of pride in our state. As some one has stated before, Philadelphia and NY have a divide and conquer plan for New Jersey and our politicians, our newspapers (which besides radio is the ONLY LOCAL media we have here) allow this to continue and in many cases perpetuate this problem.

We have to stop fighting against ourselves. I have heard so many people - even at NJ Travel events say they were South Jerseyan or North Jerseyan and stick up their nose at the other part of the state - we are ALL NEW Jerseyans. Some just happen to live in the southERN or northERN part of NEW Jersey. I refuse to say North Jersey or South Jersey and I hope that all proud NEW Jerseyans will stop using those ridiculous names. Support your home state, Spending your tax dollars in NY or Philadelphia does absolutely NOTHING for NJ - other than to take your money and give it to another state. If you want to lower taxes in NJ, start supporting NJ and stop acting like we're just connections of NY and Philly.

I travel all over the state, from the mountains of the northwest section, to the cities of Newark and Jersey City, to the beautiful towns of Princeton and Cranbury, to Salem and Camden along the Delaware, to Seaside Heights and Atlantic City on the ocean and down to the southern most tip of Cape May. NJ is a great and beautiful state. I recommend to ALL New Jerseyans to explore this state, take a road trip to a new location that you have never been to. If you live in sourthern NJ, take a trip to the Newark Museum or to hike along the Delaware Water Gap. If you live in northern NJ, check out the pristine wilderness of the Pine Barrens, check out the USS New Jersey (instead of complaining that it should have been placed in Jersey City), check out the Hancock House. Finally I recommend that ALL New Jerseyans support OUR hometown teams!

MITHRANDIR
04-17-2006, 03:39 PM
(I vote for neither)

I actually use
north, (North of New Brunswick, IMO)
central (Between New Brunswick and northern Ocean/Burlington Counties)
and
south (South of southern Ocean/Burlington counties)
to better describe the geographic regions of the state.

If someone asked I would say I am from New Jersey.

If they wanted more detail, then I would help them by being more specific. (usually by saying where I am in relation to AC, NYC and/or PHL.)

IMO,
I think part of the reason for the divided nature (regardless of the silliness of it) is that many people in southern NJ moved from the PHL area and that many people in northern NJ moved from the NYC area.

They have not fully accepted that they are now living in another state.

JerseyDevil
04-17-2006, 06:00 PM
(I vote for neither)

I actually use
north, (North of New Brunswick, IMO)
central (Between New Brunswick and northern Ocean/Burlington Counties)
and
south (South of southern Ocean/Burlington counties)
to better describe the geographic regions of the state.

I use northern NJ, central NJ and southern NJ. South and North describe political entities more than geographical.



If someone asked I would say I am from New Jersey.

I always only say I'm from New Jersey, but if someone asks where something is - then I say something like "that's in southern New Jersey".



If they wanted more detail, then I would help them by being more specific. (usually by saying where I am in relation to AC, NYC and/or PHL.)

I try to leave out any reference to NY or Philadelphia - it reinforces the "New Jersey is just a surburb" stereotype. :p


IMO,
I think part of the reason for the divided nature (regardless of the silliness of it) is that many people in southern NJ moved from the PHL area and that many people in northern NJ moved from the NYC area.

They have not fully accepted that they are now living in another state.
I have to disagree with you on this one. I have seen people in the tourism industry - in this case representing a southern NJ attraction, get on another southern New Jersey representatives case for wearing a New JERSEY Devils baseball hat. They calimed they should be wearing a Flyers hat. Both were New Jerseyans and represented New Jersey attractions.

Jersey Warren
04-18-2006, 03:00 PM
I think I am impartial because I love all parts of the Garden State. And the male members of my family were not transplants, but native New Jerseyans. (Though the female members were transplants from New York.) To the best of my knowledge, members of my family have lived in New Jersey continuously since sometime before 1900.

Though I grew up in Bergen County and lived for 9 years within walking distance of Rockland County, New York, my family were always Shore people. (That's one distinction I do make, Northern New Jersey (or even "North Jersey," simply as verbal shorthand; I never use that term in writing) as opposed to the Shore. (Which I tend to capitalize because it's a specific regional place, just as people in Massachusetts capitalize the Cape, short for Cape Cod.)

In my mind, when you cross over the The Driscoll Bridge over the Raritan River on the Parkway, you are "Down the Shore," which extends to Cape May. I think of the Raritan River as New Jersey's equivilent of the Cape Cod Canal.

However, all those names are just handy geographic labels I've created for my own convenience, because being an overly compulsive type, I like neat pigeonholes to categorize everything. I never thought of New Jersey as having two separate cultures, like the cultures that exist north and south of the Mason-Dixon line. Now New Jerseyans and Texans — those are two REALLY separate cultures!

When the rest of my family (I was already married and didn't go with them) moved to Toms River in 1968, I envied them because they were so close to the beaches — and ever since I was a kid, we spent many summer weekends on Long Beach Island or Point Pleasant Beach, etc. My mother said that Ocean County people were more casual than Bergen County people because the beach lifestyle called for it, but they were basically the same people. Toms River is as heavily Italian and Irish as Jersey City used to be.

My mother bought the Ocean employment agency around 1970 and operated it until just a couple of years ago. She said every week people came into her office from Bergen or Hudson counties, looking for a new job and a new start. She used to joke that eventually half the people from "up North" would move to Ocean County. Considering that the population of T.R. increased from about 10,000 to 85,000 in 30 years, she probably had something.

Most of the time, when I go back to New Jersey, I visit family at the Shore and old friends in Bergen County. I enjoy both places and the people in both places. I'd hate to see a San Francisco-L.A. type of rivalry start in New Jersey because, I , for one, would never take sides.

NJPRIDE
04-18-2006, 09:23 PM
I for 1 always say North Jersey or South Jersey simply because it is easier to say than Northern or Southern Jersey . I am a civil war reenactor , the unit my friends and I portray is a N.J. unit recruited in 1862 in South Jersey. I live in North Jersey , most of my friends in the unit live in South Jersey . We are all proud to portray brave N.J. men where ever we are from ! We never say we are from North or South Jersey , but we are from New Jersey and proud of it ! We are JERSEYMEN one and ALL !:D

Jersey Warren
04-19-2006, 10:13 AM
Another thing I like about this site is that people here use flattering (and correct) nouns to describe residents of the Garden State. I never liked the sound of New JerseyITE (sounds like Trotskyite!) but some people (probably the same ones who say "Joisey") persist in using that antiquated term.

I first encountered the term New Jerseyan in the pages of New Jersey Monthly about 30 years ago. I am glad that usage has taken hold.

I also like Jerseymen, a term I believe goes back to colonial times. Texans are always bragging that they were an independent "country" for ten years after seceding from Mexico and joining the United States. But, in reality, each of the 13 colonies were independent states (synonomous with countries in international usage) from the time of the Declaration of Independence in 1776 until the implementation of the Constitution in 1788.

My youngest brother, Glenn, was only 5 when my family moved to Toms River. My mother used to teasingly refer to him as a "Piney"!




I for 1 always say North Jersey or South Jersey simply because it is easier to say than Northern or Southern Jersey . I am a civil war reenactor , the unit my friends and I portray is a N.J. unit recruited in 1862 in South Jersey. I live in North Jersey , most of my friends in the unit live in South Jersey . We are all proud to portray brave N.J. men where ever we are from ! We never say we are from North or South Jersey , but we are from New Jersey and proud of it ! We are JERSEYMEN one and ALL !:D

JerseyDevil
04-19-2006, 12:21 PM
Another thing I like about this site is that people here use flattering (and correct) nouns to describe residents of the Garden State. I never liked the sound of New JerseyITE (sounds like Trotskyite!) but some people (probably the same ones who say "Joisey") persist in using that antiquated term.

Another one of my pet peeves. :) I even wrote to Gaico because they use "Jerseyite" in their commercials. I asked them if they were aware that most New Jerseyans find that term to be deragatory. They never responded. I do have a thread discussing New Jerseyan versus New Jerseysite (http://forum.aboutnewjersey.com/showthread.php?t=199) you should look at. My mother hated the term also.


I also like Jerseymen, a term I believe goes back to colonial times. Texans are always bragging that they were an independent "country" for ten years after seceding from Mexico and joining the United States. But, in reality, each of the 13 colonies were independent states (synonomous with countries in international usage) from the time of the Declaration of Independence in 1776 until the implementation of the Constitution in 1788.

I always try explaining this concept to non-Americans in other countries. They look at the US as "just the US" and don't realize that we are no different really than the EU and that at one point in time WE collectively decided to join together to form a "more perfect union". many seriously don't think our state borders matter at all. (off topic :))


My youngest brother, Glenn, was only 5 when my family moved to Toms River. My mother used to teasingly refer to him as a "Piney"!
Hey - I loved growing up on the outskirts of the Pine Barrens (Bricktown). I loved going into the woods and searching for the Jersey Devil.

BTW - I have noticed a definite division in our state "north versus south" - I hope everyone here will combat that and let people know that NJ has to come first. Philadelphia and NY do not contribute to the NJ economy, except when people visit here. Northern New Jersey and southern New Jersey should be working together to help promote all of New Jersey.

MITHRANDIR
04-19-2006, 01:32 PM
I always try explaining this concept to non-Americans in other countries. They look at the US as "just the US" and don't realize that we are no different really than the EU and that at one point in time WE collectively decided to join together to form a "more perfect union". many seriously don't think our state borders matter at all. (off topic :))



You would not be thinking of a certain internet mapper. ;)


I try to leave out any reference to NY or Philadelphia - it reinforces the "New Jersey is just a surburb" stereotype.


Fair point. Although many people are more familiar with PHL and/or NYC than most towns/cities in NJ.

I will make an effort to leave NYC and PHL in the future.

beatman10
04-21-2006, 07:55 PM
I spent my teen years in Point Pleasant Beach(central) and now I live outside of Atlantic City(south). I really didn't run into all that north/south stuff until I moved to Atlantic County. People relocate here from Pennsylvania and are not interested in anything above the Mullica River. They believe ALL their tax money goes north and if "South Jersey" would secede, all that money would stay south. I tell them the most powerful man in NJ, George Norcross, lives in Cherry Hill and that NY and PA would probably annex NJ if the state were to divide.
I've said in the past, state politicans use the north/south thing to reneg on their campaign promises. They want to keep us blaming each other for high taxes so we don't go after the real culprits, the politicans. Also NY and PHL love it because it keeps us under their influence, buying their newspapers, going to their theatres, rooting for their teams, etc. If someone gives me a hard time about wearing a NJ Devils shirt, I tell them to get some state pride and get their heads out of Philly's a$$. They don't like that too much, but this IS MY STATE, and they can move back to PA if they think it's so great over there.

general_lee
07-24-2006, 07:42 PM
As always, you North Jerseyans refuse to admit the obvious. You get all of the States' money. You always have. I say let all of the the counties south of Burlington succeed. If our "representives" were that...this would have happened 20 years ago. Do you have any idea how much money your governor cost Atlantic City doing his Newt Gingerich impression? Do you even understand that his tax increase won't even make you any money for years after he is gone because of the red he put you in for that show? Below is just the latest slap in the face. Yet he is all to quick to support dredging for the for the Port of New York and New Jersey. Last time I checked, New York was another state, also. Why don't you move to it?



HARRISBURG, July 5, 2006 – State Sen. Michael J. Stack sent a letter to New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine on the issue of Delaware River dredging and urged him to support the initiative.

“The ports along the Delaware River desperately need the dredging,” said Stack (D-Philadelphia). “Dredging to 45 feet will allow the ports to accommodate larger ships and compete with ports in other sections of the United States.

“Failure to dredge will force companies to move their businesses to other ports. This will result in the loss of thousands of jobs, millions of dollars in tax revenue, and hundreds of millions of dollars in economic activity. The dredging debate has gone on far too long. Now is the time to act.”
As a state legislator representing Tioga Marine Terminal, Stack offered to assist in bringing both sides to an agreement on the issue.

beatman10
07-24-2006, 08:37 PM
As always, you North Jerseyans refuse to admit the obvious. You get all of the States' money. You always have. I say let all of the the counties south of Burlington succeed. If our "representives" were that...this would have happened 20 years ago. Do you have any idea how much money your governor cost Atlantic City doing his Newt Gingerich impression? Do you even understand that his tax increase won't even make you any money for years after he is gone because of the red he put you in for that show? Below is just the latest slap in the face. Yet he is all to quick to support dredging for the for the Port of New York and New Jersey. Last time I checked, New York was another state, also. Why don't you move to it?



HARRISBURG, July 5, 2006 – State Sen. Michael J. Stack sent a letter to New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine on the issue of Delaware River dredging and urged him to support the initiative.

“The ports along the Delaware River desperately need the dredging,” said Stack (D-Philadelphia). “Dredging to 45 feet will allow the ports to accommodate larger ships and compete with ports in other sections of the United States.

“Failure to dredge will force companies to move their businesses to other ports. This will result in the loss of thousands of jobs, millions of dollars in tax revenue, and hundreds of millions of dollars in economic activity. The dredging debate has gone on far too long. Now is the time to act.”
As a state legislator representing Tioga Marine Terminal, Stack offered to assist in bringing both sides to an agreement on the issue.

beatman10
07-24-2006, 09:03 PM
As always, you North Jerseyans refuse to admit the obvious. You get all of the States' money. You always have. I say let all of the the counties south of Burlington succeed. If our "representives" were that...this would have happened 20 years ago. Do you have any idea how much money your governor cost Atlantic City doing his Newt Gingerich impression? Do you even understand that his tax increase won't even make you any money for years after he is gone because of the red he put you in for that show? Below is just the latest slap in the face. Yet he is all to quick to support dredging for the for the Port of New York and New Jersey. Last time I checked, New York was another state, also. Why don't you move to it?



HARRISBURG, July 5, 2006 – State Sen. Michael J. Stack sent a letter to New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine on the issue of Delaware River dredging and urged him to support the initiative.

“The ports along the Delaware River desperately need the dredging,” said Stack (D-Philadelphia). “Dredging to 45 feet will allow the ports to accommodate larger ships and compete with ports in other sections of the United States.

“Failure to dredge will force companies to move their businesses to other ports. This will result in the loss of thousands of jobs, millions of dollars in tax revenue, and hundreds of millions of dollars in economic activity. The dredging debate has gone on far too long. Now is the time to act.”
As a state legislator representing Tioga Marine Terminal, Stack offered to assist in bringing both sides to an agreement on the issue.
decision to shut down the casinos. Also, I live in Atlantic County which puts me in "south" Jersey. You know as well as I do that state politicans love to pull out north/south Jersey arguments when they want to reneg on campaign promises or shift blame from themselves for not acting on property taxes. If they can keep us fighting amongst themselves, they reap the spoils. Doesn't the most powerful political boss in the entire state, George Norcross, live in Cherry Hill? Remember, it's on tape, what he said about how the McGreeveys and the Corzines have to answer to him. As far as dredging the Delaware, you need to put pressure on your legislatures, or vote in new ones who will support dredging. That's where you need put anger to good use, in the voting booth.

general_lee
07-24-2006, 09:26 PM
Doesn't the most powerful political boss in the entire state, George Norcross, live in Cherry Hill?

You're absolutely right. After the revolution, we'll be sure to mail him to Trenton. :lmao:


As far as dredging the Delaware, you need to put pressure on your legislatures, or vote in new ones who will support dredging. That's where you need put anger to good use, in the voting booth.

Unfortunately, this is where North Jersey folks and loyalists JUST DON'T GET IT. The legislature is NOT a representation of New Jersey. There are simply two states, always has been, always will be. Unless we pull out and form a seperate State, the people from the South will always send most of their money up North. It's not what any politician says...it's a political reality. I pasted that article in because it was merely the latest incident that proves my point.

NJPRIDE
07-24-2006, 10:00 PM
First let me say this I DID NOT vote for corzine ! Second I support all of N.J. north ,south ,east and west . I take great pride in being from this state . I live in Morris county up by route 80 but spend a fair amout of time in south Jersey . I have many friends down in Williamstown and the surrounding area that I reenact with . Two weekends ago my wife and I went to A.C. to help the city after the shutdown , we toured the lighthouse, (spent money), walked the boardwalk (spent money), and had dinner at the Hard Rock ( it wasnt free ). My northern money did find its way down south and I have no problem with that . This crap about north -south is just that,CRAP . I support anything that will help ANY part of this state make money . If we must dredge in the south then dredge ,if it needs to be done in the north then do it ! All I can say is corzine and his cronnies cody and roberts are a joke and in the long run do not care about the well being of the state no matter what part of the state it is . We as a state must remember in Nov. and vote for what is good for the state as a whole! Gen. Lee you must get a new name , Gen. Robert E. Lee was a traitor who turned his back on HIS country and after the war he should have been hung . I sir dont think you want to be put in that category , do you? And forget about your little revolution IT AINT HAPPENING!

general_lee
07-24-2006, 10:37 PM
Now, I must confess, I do appreciate it when you bennies come down and give us your money and then go home because that money stays in the local community.:wave:

Ya'll come back now, hea?

JerseyDevil
07-24-2006, 10:39 PM
Unfortunately, this is where North Jersey folks and loyalists JUST DON'T GET IT. The legislature is NOT a representation of New Jersey. There are simply two states, always has been, always will be. Unless we pull out and form a seperate State, the people from the South will always send most of their money up North. It's not what any politician says...it's a political reality. I pasted that article in because it was merely the latest incident that proves my point.
Sorry - I'm NOT a North Jerseyan - as there is no such thing - just as their is NO such thing as a SOUTH Jerseyan - we are ALL NEW Jerseyans and until we can work together - we will always have these problems. As NJPride said - the politicians - including NY and Philadelphia love to split NJ into "two states" that way they can keep us fighting amongst ourselves instead of working together an really fixing the state.

I have been in conversations with people from northern New Jersey (you notice the lowercase "n" in northern), still ***** that southern New Jersey (again you will notice the use of the lowercase "s" in southern) got the USS New Jersey. My personal belief is that it was the perfect choice, first - it was built right across the river. Second, those who say that it is in finacial problems because of it's location have to look at the fact that NJ does VERY little - either in northern New Jersey or southern New Jersey to promote itself. It's location has very little to do with it's finacial situation. If it was located in Jersey City at Liberty State park it still wouldn't bring people from across in Manhattan over to NJ - becaue NJ does next to no advertising in NY and NY won't allow NJ to do any advertising.

I have one phrase for you - "United we stand, divided we fall". The opposition and those who would like to keep NJ weak and voters uninformed, love to keep us divided. I'm for what ever is best for New Jersey, whether it is northern or southern. I suggest you do the same, before we just get annexed by NY and Pennsylvania - like they have wanted to do since the days of colonial america. :roll: BTW - I'm sure you must be one of those people who instead o supporting New JERSEY teams, you will go across to Philadelphia and support their economy. For every dollar that goes over to Pennsylvania or NY - that money is from the New Jersey economy. If you support southern New Jersey - then you would still support the NEW JERSEY Devils over the Philadelphia Fliers - who do zero for the NJ economy. But then again - Philadelphia has brainwashed NewJerseyans into believing that if you live in southern New Jersey - then you must support their teams - instead of New Jersey's HOME teams.

JerseyDevil
07-24-2006, 10:44 PM
Now, I must confess, I do appreciate it when you bennies come down and give us your money and then go home because that money stays in the local community.:wave:

Ya'll come back now, hea?

Let me see - I grew up in bricktown, lived in Plainsboro, Kendall Park, Trenton and now live in Toms River. YOu can consider me only one thing - a proud NEW Jerseyan. As far as benny is concerned, that is merely out of ignorance about the importance of tourism on the local economy. Would you enjoy visiting a place where they have a deragatory term for you? As I have said - a "benny" is solely a person who does NOT respect NJ, but comes down to our beaches, and proceed to leave their trash there. It does NOT describe all northern New Jersey residents as your post indicates you believe.

JerseyDevil
07-24-2006, 10:59 PM
As always, you North Jerseyans refuse to admit the obvious. You get all of the States' money. You always have. I say let all of the the counties south of Burlington succeed. If our "representives" were that...this would have happened 20 years ago. Do you have any idea how much money your governor cost Atlantic City doing his Newt Gingerich impression? Do you even understand that his tax increase won't even make you any money for years after he is gone because of the red he put you in for that show? Below is just the latest slap in the face. Yet he is all to quick to support dredging for the for the Port of New York and New Jersey. Last time I checked, New York was another state, also. Why don't you move to it?
I have to ask you - who are you talking to here? First of all - it seems from posts on this board that NO ONE supports corzines taxes you make reference to. Also, why would people who are proud to be New Jerseyans, whether they live in southern New Jersey or northern New Jersey, want to live in NY? I haven't heard anyone say that they would want to live in New York, nor have I heard them be against nor for the Delaware dredging. My sole problem with the dredging is how much does it support NJ, versus Phildelphia. That's the question you should be asking. The dredging in northern New Jersey you mention SOLELY supports New Jersey, not New York. (although I do think that NJ should take back control of our ports and airports and leave the bi-state agency). The dreding in NY harbor supports Port Newark/Elizabeth. What will the dredging of the Delaware support - from what I have seen - the majority supports Pennsylvania and very little for New Jersey.

JerseyDevil
07-24-2006, 11:10 PM
I pasted that article in because it was merely the latest incident that proves my point.
Actually this quote in your article proves MY point - "“The ports along the Delaware River desperately need the dredging,” said Stack (D-Philadelphia). “Dredging to 45 feet will allow the ports to accommodate larger ships and compete with ports in other sections of the United States. " BTW - just to let you know - this PHILADELPHIA politician means NEW JERSEY ports when he says "compete with ports in OTHER sections of the US". Port Elizabeth/Newark is one of the largest ports in the country and THAT is Philadelpia's main competition. Sorry - I would rather have our tax mony going to support a NEW JERSEY port - regardless if it's in southern New Jersey or norther New Jersey, instead of going over to support another state's economy.

So since when does a philadelphian politician represent NJ? Philadelphia NEEDS the dredging - it will hardly do anything for southern New Jersey, unless of course the state builds up it's docks and shipping along our side of the river. Philadelphia won't let that happen - but they'll convince people like you that it's a north/south issue. :roll: I'm frankly tired of our tax money going over to support NY and Pennsylvania.

NJPRIDE
07-25-2006, 05:12 AM
Lee , Grow up and get over the " Benny " thing . As a matter of fact alot of people in south Jersey need to grow up and get on with their lives .:D

general_lee
07-25-2006, 06:36 AM
who are you talking to here?

that's rather obvious


My sole problem with the dredging is how much does it support NJ, versus Phildelphia. That's the question you should be asking. The dredging in northern New Jersey you mention SOLELY supports New Jersey, not New York.

??? Ok...they have better drugs in North Jersey


The dreding in NY harbor supports Port Newark/Elizabeth. What will the dredging of the Delaware support - from what I have seen - the majority supports Pennsylvania and very little for New Jersey.

Have you even heard of the South Jersey Port Corporation?

JerseyDevil
07-25-2006, 02:05 PM
that's rather obvious

well it's actually not - because you came right out into attack mode as your first post. So I guess you just hate northern New Jersey. But then again - I bet you have hardly spent any time in the northern part of the state - which is often a problem.


??? Ok...they have better drugs in North Jersey

You are right about that - northern New Jersey is the pharmeceutical capital of the world, with Bristol-Meyers Squibb, Merck, and many others located there. I would like to know what the hell that has to do with my comment - "My sole problem with the dredging is how much does it support NJ, versus Phildelphia. That's the question you should be asking. The dredging in northern New Jersey you mention SOLELY supports New Jersey, not New York." I guess you were just trying to divert attention from the truth and trying to make some snide comment about drugs being transported through the port. If that is the case - then I guess you support the dredging in Philadelphia - yes PHIL-A-DEL-PHIA - so people in southern New Jersey have easier access to illegal drugs.


Have you even heard of the South Jersey Port Corporation?
Yes I have - that doesn't mean that the dredging operation doesn't benefit PHILDELPHIA more though. It's so PHILADELPHIA can expand it's ports - that's why Pennsylvania politicians keep speaking out about it and why THEY are the ones trying to stirup the "north/south" argument in New Jersey. PHILADELPHIA wants to compete with NEW JERSEY'S port in Elizabeth/Newark. If New Jersey politicians said that they wanted the dredging so they could expand and compete with Philadelphia - then I would be for it, but so far I haven't heard much of that.

BTW - I noticed you ignored most of my other comments. Also, I like your avatar
http://www.aboutnewjersey.com/images/forumPics/goHomeNYers.jpg
- but I should tell you that that goes for Philadelpians also, not just New Yorkers. Also, the only way you can claim superiority is if you are actually born in New Jersey, but we are all immigrants anyway. I was born in New Jersey and I grew up in New Jersey (as well as my mother and father and grandparents). However, it seems to me that unlike you - I claim ALL of NEW Jersey as my home, while you want to split the state apart and only consider yourself a southern New Jerseyan. I welcome anyone to live in NJ - just as long as they respect the state. You seem not to respect the state - but only a a part of it's overall greatness. I have seen many NATIVE New Jerseyans litter, and dis New Jersey (such as yourself). I have also heard many New Yorkers (although it is rare) praise the beauty of New Jersey. I see no need to single out New Yorkers on your avatar.

I'm telling you - if you want New Jersey to be the great state it can be, then you better start speaking out against our politicians cowtowing to New York AND Pennsylvania. Whether a business is located in northern New Jersey, or southern New Jersey - all that state reaps the benefits. When a business is located in NY or Pennsylvania - NJ doesn't reap any benefits, except makes NJ into a commuter state and brings more people in who don't really care about the state.

NJPRIDE
07-25-2006, 05:38 PM
Good post J.D. but on thing I completly disagree with you is when you said we are all imigrants . I was born here in N.J. meaning I came from the U.S. ,I did not migrate from another country meaning I am not an imigrant ! On another note I also consider all of N.J. my home . We as a state must look out for ourselves not n.y. or pa. I believe port Elizabeth is the largest port in the country and 80% of what this COUNTRY uses comes through that port . As far as you Private Lee you better watch yourself my wife is from N.Y. If YOU are so unhappy in N.J. LEAVE and go to your garden of eden in Pa. Just act you age and dont be offending people you dont know. Our state takes enough crap from the outside and we dont need it from the inside . Show some N.J. pride and take your head out of Pennsylvanias ASS ! Oh and one last note if I want to go down the shore that is what I will do regardless of what you say or your websites! Lee should have been executed after the war . Remember he lost the war meaning he went down in history as a LOSER . 88,000 N.J. troops helped kick his ASS in the long run if you are such a proud New Jerseyian why do you want to be named after him?

JerseyDevil
07-25-2006, 08:37 PM
Good post J.D. but on thing I completly disagree with you is when you said we are all imigrants . I was born here in N.J. meaning I came from the U.S. ,I did not migrate from another country meaning I am not an imigrant !

I had posted that because I didn't want him to claim that his family goes all the way back to he original colonial settlers - while mine only go back to Ellis Island and therefore he is more of a New Jerseyan than I am. In that respect we are all immigrants. Our ancestors had to come from somewhere (unless you are Lenape Indian - although even they migrated to NJ), before settling in NJ.

Jersey Warren
07-27-2006, 05:40 PM
Years ago, John F. Kennedy wrote a book called "A Nation of Immigrants." Being that Ellis Island is entirely surrounded by New Jersey waters, and a good part of the island itself is in New Jersey, I think it's appropriate to call New Jersey "A state of immigrants."

One of the things I always liked about my home state is its great diversity of people. All Americans, all New Jerseyans, but with such a variety of cultures!

:)


I had posted that because I didn't want him to claim that his family goes all the way back to he original colonial settlers - while mine only go back to Ellis Island and therefore he is more of a New Jerseyan than I am. In that respect we are all immigrants. Our ancestors had to come from somewhere (unless you are Lenape Indian - although even they migrated to NJ), before settling in NJ.

JerseyDevil
08-15-2006, 07:56 PM
I was just watching NJN News and they repeatedly said "North Jersey" and "South Jersey". This is really starting to grate on my nerves so I sent the following e-mail to them....



In my analysis of New Jersey, the use of the terms North and South Jersey is one the aspects which continue to encourage infighting in the state (the north versus south divide). We are ALL New Jerseyans and the use of North Jersey and South Jersey is grammatically incorrect and perpetuates this division.

The correct usage is southern New Jersey and northern New Jersey - with the "n" and "s" lower case. We are NOT two seperate states - we are one state.

I hope in the future that NJN will promote the healing of New Jersey and use the terms southern and northern New Jersey in the future. Southern New Jersey and northern New Jersey properly describes a geographical location, not a political/territorial division like South Jersey and North Jersey does.

Thank you -

Robert Rosetta, President
AboutNewJersey.com

JerseyDevil
08-31-2007, 08:21 PM
There seems to be a documentary being made asking where is the dividing line between North and South Jersey. There is NO North or South Jersey - that's why they have to ask the question.

I tried posting the following on the NJ.com blog on it - but I'm not sure if it's going through or if it waits for moderation.



We are ONE state - not two. I hate the term "South Jersey" and "North Jersey". It should properly be southern NEW Jersey and northern New Jersey. We have a discuss of this at the AboutNewJersey.com/url] messageboard - <a [url=http://forum.aboutnewjersey.com/showthread.php?t=319]North Versus South (http://www.AboutNewJersey.com)

One of New Jersey's problems is that we are constantly fighting against ourselves instead of acting like a state with a common goal. Southern New Jersey is NOT part of Philadelphia and northern New Jersey is NOT part of New York. We are New JERSEYANS and we better start acting like it - fighting for our interests that support New Jersey instead of always willing to support the wishes of our regional neighbors on the opposing rivers.

You can see some of the attitude of south versus north here - but yet we're willing to spend billions of dollars for a second rail tunnel to export our jobs to New York. If people want the financial situation to get better in New Jersey - then you better start working FOR New Jersey as a whole, instead of this regional nonsense.


You can read their blog at - Where does North Jersey end and South Jersey begin? (http://blog.nj.com/jersey/2007/08/where_does_north_jersey_end_an.html)

I don't know why I'm giving you the link - they don't allow for links. I hate that when messageboards and blogs do that - it used to be that the web was all about sharing information and linking. Now it's all about making sure that people don't leave your site or know what else is out there. :mad:

kristin1788
04-06-2009, 12:31 AM
Hello. I just registered to this board and saw your posting about North versus South Jersey. I am a born and raised South Jersey girl. Everytime someone asks me where I am from I tell them South Jersey. Why you may ask? Well we consider North Jersey/New York. And South Jersey/Philadelphia. You also asked why South Jersey people would be fans of the Flyers, a team that you say does not bring money into the state of New Jersey. Well one reason is because that is who we were raised to cheer for. Just like most North and Central Jerseyans were raised to cheer for the Devils. And to answer your question, the Flyers do bring money into the state of NJ. Their practice facility is located in Voorhees. And most, if not all the players live in South Jersey. So they pay NJ taxes.

Many years ago there was a debate as to whether South Jersey should leave NJ altogether and make is own state. Down here in South Jersey we were all for it. However, the people of North Jersey were not, because if we did secede from NJ, then North Jersey would not get any of the revenue money generated from the casinos. So we had to stay.

One last thing. The counties located in South Jersey are Atlantic, Burlington, Camden, Cape May, Cumberland, Gloucester and Salem. We consider Ocean County to be Central Jersey and everything thing outside of Mercer, Monmouth and Middlesex Counties to be North Jersey.

JerseyDevil
04-06-2009, 05:37 PM
Kristin -

Welcome - I hope you will continue to post about all the great things to do in southern New Jersey. My questions were mostly rhetorical. One of the problems that causes New Jersey so many financial problems is that so many New Jerseyans view New Jersey as two different states and fort he most part even think of our state as mere extensions of Philadelphia and New York. I consider myself a New JERSEYAN - northern, central and southern. As you may notice, this site truly does cover all of New Jersey and although it is impossible to split things completely 50/50 since northern New Jersey is more populous, I think we do a very good job of it.

If New Jersey was to split - it wouldn't be too long before neither section was a state - we would just be annexed by New York State and Pennsylvania.

As for the Flyers contributing to New Jersey - they do nothing for identifying with the state. Just like I refuse to root for the Giants, Jets or Red Bulls - who are New Jersey teams - but have turned their back on New Jersey and claim to be NY teams - I refuse to root for the Flyers who are a foreign team. The Devils are a TRUE New Jersey team - practicing, playing, living and CALLING themselves - New JERSEY.

It's time that New Jerseyans put aside their "north versus south" attitude and work together to support New Jersey. As I tell people from both "sides" - cross the 195 divide already! Our Travel Writer lives in Camden County - she went to Jersey City and Newark for the first time last year and is completely unfamiliar with anything north of 195. She was amazed by northern New Jersey. Don't worry though - I equally try to get people who live in northern New Jersey is go south and explore beyond Cape May and Atlantic City.

Unless we put New Jersey first - we might as well sell the state to Pennsylvania and New York state and call it quits. I however will fight that - because I have NO DESIRE to be a citizen of either state. I'm a New Jerseyan and proud of it.

Jersey Warren
04-06-2009, 06:03 PM
I now live in Southwest Florida, so other states identify areas of the state by directions of the compass, as well. I have no problem with using the terms North Jersey and South Jersey as verbal shorthand for the northern and southern portions of the state, but I love all of New Jersey, North, South, Central, East or West. My dividing line as to what constitutes Southern New Jersey, however, has always been where the Shore starts, anything south of Sandy Hook. I know this is far north of the center of the state, but as soon as you cross that Raritan River bridge there is an entirely different feel to things. You go from a world of button-down people focused on status and material things to people who are more casual and as much interested in a leisure lifestyle as keeping up with the Joneses. I saw the change when my family moved from Upper Saddle River to Toms River. My Dad soon retired most of his suits and dress shirts and ties to the back of his closet and actually bought a boat and went fishing and crabbing in Barnegat Bay once in awhile. It's more about lifestyle and attitude than geography. Away, I hope you enjoy this board. There are lots of good people here, some still in New Jersey and some "in exile."

JerseyDevil
04-06-2009, 06:46 PM
...and some "in exile."
Exile is the optimum word there. I at one point was an exile also. It's also funny how many people I know who thought the grass was greener in other states, such as North Carolina or Florida and ended up moving back.

It was a bit off topic - so I will again say this - New Jerseyans need to start working together. Enough with this division already. As Ben Franklin said - "We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately." Right now we are hanging separately. As Philadelphia and new York expand with a business boom, our cities - both north AND south, suffer. Just look at the contrast between Camden and Philadelphia - Center City and all those skyscrapers in Philadelphia didn't even exist 20 years ago. That could have been Camden if New Jerseyans stopped arguing amongst ourselves and worked together. While we fight amongst ourselves, the cities on the other side of our rivers grow and expand and is fueled by the money of New Jerseyans.

kristin1788
04-07-2009, 09:28 PM
I know this might sound bad, but no matter what anyone thinks, it will also be North Jersey vs South Jersey. We don't like the north and they don't like us. That is all there is to it. I went to college in Morristown and I hated being up there. All of the people seemed so rude to me. I am a Jersey girl and I am proud of it, but if I had to add something to that I am more proud to be a South Jersey Girl.

JerseyDevil
04-08-2009, 01:07 AM
I know this might sound bad, but no matter what anyone thinks, it will also be North Jersey vs South Jersey.

It's actually sad more than anything because New Jersey is weakened by this attitude. We fight amongst ourselves while our neighbors take advantage of it - not to mention our politicians. As long as people have this attitude - i agree it will never change. I hope it does though. It is part of our history though, from colonial times when New Jersey was East and West Jersey to the Civil War when southern New Jersey supported the Confederate States and northern New Jersey supported the Union. There was a huge battle on where New Jersey was going to stand during the Civil War.


We don't like the north and they don't like us. That is all there is to it. I went to college in Morristown and I hated being up there. All of the people seemed so rude to me.

I think it's more a factor of preconceived notions than anything else. Often times people look for what they expect, not actually what they see. I have been all over the state and there are nice people in the southern area and there are nice people in the northern area and there are rude and obnoxious people in both areas as well.


I am a Jersey girl and I am proud of it, but if I had to add something to that I am more proud to be a South Jersey Girl.
And I say I'm a New Jerseyan first and an American second.

I don't care about New York and I don't care about Philadelphia - I care about Camden, Trenton, Newark, Jersey City, Bridgeton, etc. Instead of New Jerseyans always looking across our rivers, we should look inward and concentrate on making New Jersey a better place. But to do that both northern and southern New Jersey have to stop their petty bickering.

Jersey Warren
04-08-2009, 08:59 AM
I know this might sound bad, but no matter what anyone thinks, it will also be North Jersey vs South Jersey. We don't like the north and they don't like us.

Although I haven't lived in New Jersey for many years, I was born and raised there. My family has a long history in the Garden State. In fact, my grandfather was born in Jersey City exactly 105 years ago today. I still have three brothers there.

I've visited all of New Jersey from High Point to Cape May and from Alpine to Delaware Bay. I have never witnessed any so-called rivalry or dislike of one group of New Jerseyans for another. (Now we in Northeastern New Jersey disliked New Yorkers, especially when they drove under the speed limit in the left lane, but that's an entirely different story!)

How about the thousands of people who own one home in northern New Jersey and a second beach home in southern New Jersey. Do they develop a split personality and hate the other half of themselves every time they go away to their other home?

I grew up just off GSP exit 172, the last exit in New Jersey before crossing into New York state. In spite of that, I felt perfectly at home at the opposite end of the Parkway in Cape May. In many ways, I always liked the southern part of the state more than the northern, but I like all areas of New Jersey (except maybe right next to one of those stereotypical chemical plants or oil refineries!) and have never felt any sort of prejudice on the part of people from one area against another.

A-Line
04-17-2009, 05:15 PM
This is an interesting thread. I'm sorry I only now just discovered it.

My two cents:

I was raised in northern New Jersey -- Bergen/Passaic counties -- since I was a 1-year-old and went to preschool, elementary school, high school, and college here. I got married here, bought a house here, had a kid here, and still live here. And I love it.

I have never considered the terms North Jersey, South Jersey or Central Jersey a negative thing, but I can understand why some might think that. They could be seen as kind of divisive

I have never had a problem with people from South Jersey (southern New Jersey). My grandfather moved from Brooklyn to Vineland and lived there for many years before passing away. My aunt/uncle/cousins, originally from Brooklyn, have lived in Mount Holly for close to 25 years. Another aunt/uncle/cousin, originally from New York, moved to Eastampton and got involved in local politics. And yet another aunt/uncle/cousins combo moved from New York City to Browns Mills. All are very happy where they are.

I have spent many summer days down the shore, whether it be Sandy Hook, Sea Bright, Long Branch, Asbury Park, Belmar, Point Pleasant, Seaside Heights, Avalon, Atlantic City, the Wildwoods, or Cape May. I have always respected those areas. While there, I say hello to everyone as I pass them on the street or in the supermarket; I pick up after myself; I don't wear socks and sandals together; I respect the local customs; etc. All of my friends are the same way.

That being said, I realize there are some misconceptions and animosities between northern and southern New Jersey that have lingered for who knows how long. Same as there are between the North and the South in the country.

That's unfortunate, I guess.

All I can do is speak for myself. I'm Jersey and proud of it!

kristin1788
05-02-2009, 11:58 PM
I agree with you A line in respects that there is no negative animosity with North, South or Central Jersey. That is how it has always been for me. If you ask anyone from my area they will tell you that they are from South Jersey, not New Jersey.

JerseyDevil
05-03-2009, 10:51 AM
I agree with you A line in respects that there is no negative animosity with North, South or Central Jersey. That is how it has always been for me. If you ask anyone from my area they will tell you that they are from South Jersey, not New Jersey.
So then why do people in southern New Jersey feel that they don't want to be considered New Jerseyans or from New Jersey?

In actuality though - many times - people in northern New Jerseyans feel they are from New York and southern New Jerseyans feel they are from Philadelphia. Neither city which is part of this state and contributes to our economy - but we continue to export everything to them.

As I said, instead of working together - we work to divide ourselves and fight - while our neighbors get stronger and we get more into a budget mess in Trenton and our politicians use this division.

Maybe we really should just sell the state. I have mentioned it before - although I would be completely against it - but maybe we should sell southern New Jersey to Pennsylvania and northern New Jersey to New York.


The obituary
RIP New Jersey - you were a great state, but due to the infighting between towns, and regions, you cannibalized yourself. You were a keystone in American History, from colonial times to the Crossroads of the American Revolution, to the invention of so many of today's modern conveniences. However, because you were never able to work together, you slowly died and now are a distant memory.

I have no desire to be part of New York or Pennsylvania. I am a proud New Jerseyan. I don't want to live in Toms River NY or Toms River PA. I also don't want to see this state split in two. We are a small state and it stupid that we have this division - where people in southern New Jersey would rather support a foreign team such as the Flyers, but refuse to support the local team because they are located in northern New Jersey. It's stupid that northern New Jerseyans can't get over themselves and travel southward and see the beautiful countryside of southern New Jersey.

It's funny, because I lived in so many places - much larger states in terms of geographic areas, Indiana, Illinois, Oregon and they didn't have this division. California has a division, but they are a much much larger state.

I can't say I don't understand the division in New Jersey - it's in our history from when we were divided into East and West Jersey. It is time we get over this. It is time we stop thinking of ourselves as two different states. Our colonial history has really put us into a weakened state, that we are still dealing with. New York kidnapping two of our colonial governors, blockading our ports, etc. We have had a really hard time developing an identity outside fo NY and Philadelphia metro area, yet little Rhode Island and Connecticut haven't suffered the fate New Jersey has.

Anyway - this whole thing frustrates me. New Jerseyans don't work for what is best for the state as a whole - instead we are two busy protecting our fiefdoms - whether it's the school districts, small towns, regions - we refuse to work together. New Jersey is merely a collection of fiefdoms, and it's time for it to stop.