View Full Version : Jersey City vs. n.y.c.

06-24-2007, 07:20 PM
This was reported by News 12 this weekend. New York has told Jersey City, that n.y. controls the Hudson River and Jersey City cannot put a barge in the river to have a fireworks display on The 4th of July. They continued to tell Jersey City they would have to get permission from the n.y.c. fire department to do so. Are you kidding me? These nitwits in n.y.c. think the river belongs to them when it touches the New Jersey coast for miles. If this is the case why is there a line in the middle of the G.W.B. with N.J. on one side and n.y. on the other? Its like when their (n.y.) tourism dept. tried to use The Red Mill Museum in CLINTON, N.J. in their tourism ads. Or how about the time they tried to claim Sandy Hook Lighthouse as theirs. The examples can go on and on.

06-24-2007, 09:01 PM
NJPride - I'm not at all surpised by this. This is what happens when the politicians of NJ - who are supposed to be representing New Jersey continuously give away our sovereignty to NY. Our 1664 Charter states for instance that all land west of Manhattan Island and Long Island belongs to New Jersey, yet look at who lays claim to Governors Island, Staten Island, Liberty Island and most of Ellis Island.

I seriously hope that new Jersey and in particular Jersey City will go on with their fireworks display.

Another example of why I can't stand New York - their frigging arrogance they have.

06-24-2007, 09:32 PM
I e-mailed Macy's the following...

Due to the arrogance shown toward New Jersey and in particular Jersey City over the Jersey City Fireworks - I will no longer be shopping at Macy's.

Thank you -

Robert Rosetta, President

I call on everyone to also send a message to them - Customer Comment Form (https://www.macys.com/service/contact/index.ognc?defaultSubject=ORDER&DefaultRegarding=OTHERQUESTIONS#formstart)

Also, I found this on a NY Forum -

FIREWORKS WON'T FIZZLE (http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/index.ssf?/base/news-4/1181714440231290.xml&coll=3)

Wednesday, June 13, 2007

The Big Apple is playing the Big Spoiler in Jersey City's planned July 4 fireworks extravaganza - and giving a history lesson in the process, according to Jersey City officials.

But the show will go on at Liberty State Park, with fireworks starting at 9 p.m., just not as originally envisioned, Jersey City officials said yesterday.

For the past three years, the Jersey City fireworks display has been shot from a barge in the Hudson River, and city officials wanted to continue in that vein this year.

But due to the "Treaty of 1834" between New York and New Jersey (yes, that's 1834), New York has "exclusive jurisdiction . over all the waters of the Bay of New York," meaning Jersey City has to ask the New York City Fire Department for permission to put a fireworks barge in the Hudson.

The FDNY didn't quite give Jersey City a fuhgettaboutit this year, but they came as close as you can without saying no, said Jersey City officials, who are convinced the FDNY is playing favorites so as to have nothing interfere with the internationally acclaimed Macy's fireworks show.

For two of the past three years, Jersey City paid Macy's between $60,000 and $75,000 to be a sponsor of the department store's show, which included a fireworks barge near the Statue of Liberty.

But this year, Macy's bowed out of putting a barge in the Hudson River once Jersey City expressed interest in hiring its own barge. And that's when the FDNY brass started dusting off ancient treaties and getting technical, according to Jersey City officials.

FDNY officials even showed up at meetings hand-in-hand with Macy's representatives, they said.

"There's always competition, but Macy's, maybe they want to be the only one on stage," said Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy. "Maybe it's an ego thing."

A month ago, Jersey City officials reached a verbal deal with the FDNY they could live with. The Jersey City shoot would begin at 9 p.m., giving the FDNY 20 minutes of "cool down" time to move apparatus and personnel to the East River for the Macy's show.

But when the deal was put in writing, the terms changed, Jersey City officials said.

In a May 16 memo, FDNY Chief of Fire Prevention Thomas Jensen wrote to JCFD Deputy Chief Robert Cobb that the Jersey City shoot had to finish by 9:10 p.m., "at the latest."

Since the Jersey City show lasts about 20 minutes, it would have to start around 8:50 p.m., city officials said. On July 4, 9:15 p.m. is considered the first moment of darkness, said Maryanne Kellerher-Arango, Jersey City's director of cultural affairs. The Macy's show, for example, is due to start at 9:20 p.m.

The memo goes on to state that "pleasure crafts" in the vicinity of the Jersey City shoot couldn't move until the Macy's fireworks was over. The FDNY has to supervise and protect boats passing the fireworks barge, explained FDNY spokesman James Long.

Jersey City fire officials responded that FDNY officials keep conveniently forgetting Jersey City has its own fireboat - one that was used to help fight a vicious warehouse in Brooklyn, they point out.

Unwilling to live with FDNY's rules, Jersey City plans to shoot its fireworks from land within Liberty State Park.

NYC's pettiness lights up the sky

Thursday, June 14, 2007

The constant rivalry between the Garden State and the Empire State hit the headlines again. This time, Jersey City wants a barge full of fireworks near Liberty State Park to celebrate Independence Day and New York, acting as a surrogate for Macy's, says its poor cousins cannot compete with the department store chain's show.

For the past three years, Jersey City's Fourth of July fireworks display has been sent up from a barge in the Hudson River, and Jersey City officials wanted to continue the practice.

The city has paid between $60,000 and $75,000 to be a sponsor of the department store's show, which included a fireworks barge near the Statue of Liberty just off Liberty State Park. Once Jersey City showed interest in hiring its own barge for less money, Macy's bowed out.

A month ago, Jersey City officials thought they had a verbal agreement with New York's Fire Department. The Jersey City celebration was to begin at 9 p.m., giving the FDNY 20 minutes of "cool down" time to move apparatus and personnel to the East River for the Macy's show.

Then the terms began to change once Jersey City decided to get a less expensive vessel to carry its fireworks. The biggest change was the demand that Jersey City had to complete its show by 9:10 so as to not compete with Macy's East River extravaganza. Unfortunately for Jersey City, the first moment of darkness begins at 9:15 p.m.

Another sticking point has been the insistence of the Big Apple firefighters that any anchored private vessels watching the Jersey City fireworks cannot move until the Macy's show ends on the East River.

Why is it that New York's Fire Department can dictate what happens off Jersey City's shoreline? It is because of a 19th century agreement between the states, and approved by Congress, that gives New York jurisdiction over the Hudson. Although the courts have noted that New York's administration of most of the river's waters are limited to "commerce and navigation," some Jerseyans say that the Big Apple has stretched that definition to cover more than what Congress intended.

Jersey City has decided to shoot off its fireworks from land - a location inside Liberty State Park. Perhaps it is time for some of the Garden State federal legislators to set off more pyrotechnics by reviewing the old river boundary pact, so that New Jersey municipalities do not have to raise their hands every time there is a plan for a river activity. Macy's can also be a signatory to any new agreement.

As you can see - my argument that NJ's politicians keep giving away our sovereignty to NY is legitimate. I am just as much pissed off at our own government as I am at the arrogance of New York.

BTW - as you can see Jersey City folded. They're not fighting to have the barge on 4th of July. Instead it will be land based. Why? No wonder why we have three professional teams that carry NY on their uniforms, or that we always get walked all over by NY. Our politicians let it happen.

06-24-2007, 09:48 PM
Also, if I was mayor of Jersey City - I wouldn't be starting the fireworks at 9:00 a full 15 minutes before the stated start of darkness. I would have them scheduled for when the Macy's day fireworks started and I would have them go for 5 minutes longer. I would also make sure that everyone knew they were jersey City fireworks - not that they would really be able to get the word out to much since again - New York controls the media and New Jersey has relinquished that to them also.

BTW - why is News 12 only just reporting this, when the Journal had reported it June 14th????

06-29-2007, 07:05 PM
To Macy's CEO,

Macy's has said "Drop Dead" to the people of Jersey City and New Jersey. Nothing other than your coming to City Hall to personally apologize to our Mayor and promising that you will personally make sure that JC's fireworks river barge gets approved for next year will rectify this shameful assault on our celebration of our nation's birthday.

Because of the arrogance and unfairness of Macy's in squashing Jersey City's fireworks on a barge next to Liberty State Park, in your collusion with the Coast Guard and NYC so-called fire officials doing your dirty work, my family and friends will urge everyone we know to boycott Macy's store in JC and elsewhere.

You are Goliath and JC is David as you made sure that JC was denied our state sovereignty rights to have its own fireworks display. You know very well that Jersey City is being punished for deciding to stop paying Macy's for having its barge in the Hudson River near NJ. JC has a right to hire any fireworks company we want to, and when JC did pay you an exorbitant amount for fireworks in the Hudson River, your public relations people gave very poor recognition to Jersey City in all your ads before July 4.

As the son of the late "father" of Liberty State Park, Morris Pesin, a merchant who was a visionary activist,
my 92 year old mother and I feel tremendously insulted by your outrageous and sickening actions that led to the denial of the barge permit to JC. You have shown Macy's true colors, and they are not red, white and blue. How dare Macy's play a key role in stopping our fireworks from the river. Macy's does not seem to care about fair treatment or respect for the people of Jersey City.

Do you think for one moment, that JC fire officials would have a barge in the river with fireworks that would be unsafe? It wasn't "unsafe" when Macy's got paid to do the fireworks from a barge near LSP.

You should be ashamed of Macy's actions and you will deserve to lose a lot of business for your UN-AMERICAN and ANTI-FAMILY insult to the people of Jersey City and from other towns who come to LSP to enjoy the fireworks.

The fireworks as you know, will be shot from the land in Liberty State Park for New Jerseyans to enjoy so you won't get your way as a bully. However, Jersey City, hopefully next year will have its barge in our half of the river. How absurd is that, pointing to an 1834 treaty claiming the whole river for NYC.

Macy's actions represents corporate arrogance at its worst. Macy's has slapped all New Jerseyans in the face
I urge all proud residents of JC and NJ to boycott Jersey City's Newport Macy's store and all Macy's stores until the CEO of Macy's delivers an apology to Mayor Jerry Healy's office. .

Sam Pesin
Jersey City

06-30-2007, 01:18 AM
Sam -

I wanted to thank you very much for sharing your letter with everyone. I do plan on being at Liberty State Park for 4th of July. It has been a annual event for me for several years. I'm very happy that your father was one of the New Jerseyans who had the vision to see what can be done to make New Jersey and especially the wasted waterfront a much more vibrant and welcoming place. Because of Liberty State Park, Jersey City has been transformed.

It is because of your father that I am able to tell people that it is MUCH easier to come to Liberty State Park to see the Statue of Liberty (http://www.aboutnewjersey.com/Regions/Gateway/Hudson/JerseyCity/statueOfLiberty.php), even if you are coming from Manhattan. I have waited in that line at Battery Park, and it is NOT fun. I had even written to New Jersey Gazetteer to tell them that they had their map of Liberty State Park wrong and while they included the Statue of Liberty/Ellis Island ferry routes from Battery Park, they left off the ferry routes from Liberty State Park. The following year, I confirmed that they had made the corrections like they had told me they would. I also fought with Google Maps to correct their erroneous depiction of our border - see the " Google redefined NJ's border (http://forum.aboutnewjersey.com/showthread.php?t=320) thread.

I would very much like to thank your family for being such a central player in bringing this fantastic park to the residents and visitors of New Jersey. I also see that it is something that you still feel great pride in.

Can you please post the address for Macy's so other New Jerseyans may send letters. I e-mailed them, but they basically responded with "can you please explain, because we don't know what you are talking about".

I think it is ridiculous that New York, along with Macy's have the audacity to tell Jersey City, as well as New Jersey what we can and can not do within our OWN sovereign borders! I also think it is very weak of our politicians to let New York get away with it.

BTW - will you be at Liberty State Park for the 4th of July?

06-30-2007, 08:34 AM
Jersey Devil,

Thanks for your kind words about my family and about Liberty State Park. The 50th anniversary of my father's legendary 8 minute canoe trip with a reporter to dramatize the closeness of Lady Liberty to the Jersey City's decaying waterfront shoreline and to launch the campaign to establish LSP is in June, 2008. My father's two motivations were to transform the shameful backdrop of Lady Liberty from decaying piers and abandoned railyards to a beautiful park and also to provide ferry service from NJ to Lady Liberty.

My father left an amazing legacy of an urban open space park and many citizens and organizations have stood up during 31 years to protect the park from inappropriate plans. I'm president of the Friends of LSP and the Friends, with members around Hudson County and our whole state, has fought for the park and is now able to focus on our garden volunteer program and raising money for plants and trees for LSP that is such sacred NJ and American public land.

On July 4, after 2 pm I will be in LSP, behind the Terminal in the northwest corner of the park, at the Friends of LSP table under a tent not too far from the music stage. There will be music from 2pm to 9 pm and the fireworks will start when its dark, not right at 9pm. I hope you'll come to the Friends table and introduce yourself as I'd like to meet you.

On a channel 9 TV news report last night about the fireworks battle between Jersey City and New York, the reporter didn't make it clear to the citizens who were interviewed, that the fireworks will be shot from the land in the park but that they will be shot over the water. The show will be spectacular and will be done by a NJ Company, Garden State Fireworks and will be seen from all over the park.

Thanks for correcting the New Jersey Gazetteer's map of LSP to show that there is Ferry Service from LSP's historic CRRNJ Terminal dock to Lady Liberty and Ellis Island. New Yorkers and their media are hopeless when it comes to seeing that the world doesn't revolve around them. Even in yesterday's New York Times story by Anthony Ramirez http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/29/nyregion/29ferry.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
about the National Park Service not renewing the Circle Line Ferry's contract and choosing another company to service the Statue and Ellis Island, failed to mention that the ferries also leave from Liberty State Park.

Thanks too for informing Google that their putting the water boundary around Lady Liberty and Ellis Island is plain wrong. The water and electricity to these national monuments have always come from Jersey City, and there is even a short Army Corps bridge connecting Liberty State Park to Ellis Island, used by some of its staff and delivery trucks. That bridge or a new bridge should be opened for pedestrians to visit Ellis Island but the Circle Line Ferry and their puppets, the NYC politicians have always fought against such access by foot.
Hopefully, in the future that will change. Why should people be forced to pay an expensive ferry fee, when for a buck or so, they should be able to walk to Ellis Island.

The letter I wrote addressed to the CEO of Macy's was a letter to the Jersey Journal. I just emailed from this Macy's address to get their corporate headquarters address.


Robert Rosetta, President of AboutNewJersey.com in his great statement about his not shopping at Macy's anymore, gave the Macy's "customer comment form" weblink but after 10 attempts to send them my message, with the last one just being one long sentence that didn't have any foul language at all and didn't use the word "boycott", I still got an automatic reply stating that my language was inappropriate and they refused to accept it. I suppose their customer forms are only for praising them.

Next year, I hope that Jersey City and the state Government will apply together for the river barge permit, and then this will be an all out state against state battle over the larger principles of our right to use the waters next to our shores and Macy's will support NJ's rights if they are smart.

What a shame that our celebration of our nation's birth is marred by a private company using their influence over the NYC fire department and the Coast Guard to prevent JC from having a barge next to LSP, just as Macy's had a couple of years ago when they were getting paid by the JC taxpayers.

Jersey Devil and everyone, have a great Fourth of July !
Jersey City

06-30-2007, 09:04 AM
I myself will be boycotting macys and have been telling others about this problem also. They all cant understand why n.y. is this way. I will also be e-mailing our Gov., our Senators, the mayor of Jersey City, and any other N.J. officials that I feel will be appropriate. I am even thinking about Pres. Bush, it cant hurt can it? As far as Garden State Fireworks company, they are one of the best in the business, they put on the fireworks shows at Disney. We should also start a campaign to get foot access from Liberty State Park!

131 Dukes St.
06-30-2007, 12:00 PM
Macy`s will never see me or my family ever again!

06-30-2007, 01:09 PM
I'm going to let you guys determine what shirt I should wear to Liberty State Park on 4th of July. Should I wear my "AboutNJ.com" shirt or my DropNY.com shirt? :) Initially I was planning on wearing my AboutNJ.com shirt, but then when this was posted about the fireworks and NY, I wanted to wear a more NJ/anti-NY political message shirt.

DropNY.com shirt -

AboutNJ.com shirt

BTW - the AboutNJ shirt does mention that BOTH the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island are in New JERSEY waters. :)

Sam - I definitely look forward to meeting you on the 4th. What I usually do is get up there, go to Ellis Island and Statue of Liberty and then hang out at the park waiting for the fireworks. I may walk over to the Hudson Lightrail and take that into downtown Jersey City so I can get some photos. I haven't been to Jersey City's downtown in a long time. My mother was born there and my father was born in Newark, so both places have a special meaning for me, besides being New Jersey cities.

06-30-2007, 05:01 PM
Hi Jersey Devil

Let's just think New Jersey on the fourth and try to ignore NYC on such a happy occasion. The AboutNJ.com tee shirt looks great. I probably will be behind the Terminal at the Friends of LSP table from around 1 pm on.

It's a nice walk along Zapp Drive but there is a park shuttle that should be operating on the 4th that goes from Light Rail station to several park stops.

I'm glad you have strong bonds to JC and Newark too, our two largest cities and both progressing in the right direction. If you get off the Light Rail at Exchange Place and then walk north on the path along the waterfront, you'll see the many new residential and commercial towers. There are some positive changes also happening away from the waterfront like the old Medical Center built by Mayor Hague becoming a huge residential building.

LSP is more attractive than ever with a lot more flowers and gardens that the Friends of LSP's volunteers have planted.


07-03-2007, 05:33 PM
Just to let you know - News 12 New Jersey is now implying that the shooting of the fireworks on land instead of by barge was a security concern because of the bombings in Britain. Why don't the report that because of New York's heavy-handedness we are being coerced into having them shot off on land? Another example of why I hate our media, another whitewash of the truth when it comes to NY.

07-03-2007, 05:48 PM
Dear Jersey Devil,

If anyone wants to protest to Macy's about their squashing Jersey City's application to the Coast Guard (using their influence with the Coast Guard and the NYC Fire Dep't.) for shooting fireworks from a barge next to Liberty State Park (as Macy's did 2 and 3 years ago), the corporate address is: CEO of Macy's
22 - 4th Street
San Francisco, CA 94103-3131

I just read your statement about news 12 implying that the fireworks being shot from land in LSP is related to the British terror incident, and that couldn't be further from the truth as Jersey City was denied the permission over a couple of months ago.

Hope the rain doesn't come until after midnight on the 4th. There will be some classic rhythm and blues bands (including Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers) at LSP going from 2 to 9 pm behind the historic CRRNJ Terminal.

Hooray for America and for New Jersey.

07-03-2007, 06:01 PM
Sam -

Thanks for the address. I will definitely be seeing you tomorrow- unless some unforeseen situation arises of course. I will be proudly be wearing my AboutNJ.com shirt. :)

It seems from what is being reported that it's only possibility of scattered or limited drizzles and shouldn't affect 4th of July. I hope they are correct in this. I was there the one year where the fireworks were delayed and it was feared they were going to be canceled - but they ended up going off.

BTW - News 12 NJ is also reporting that the fireworks go off at 8:40. :roll:

07-03-2007, 06:18 PM
Hi Jersey Devil

The director of the Division of Cultural Affairs for Jersey City, Maryanne Kelliher, just confirmed that the Jersey City fireworks, shot from LSP over the water, will start at 9:15. Thanks for letting me know about News 12's misinformation. I called them to correct it.


07-03-2007, 06:37 PM
Thanks for letting me know about News 12's misinformation. I called them to correct it.
No problem. As you might have gathered I always look for misinformation in the media concerning NJ. I just e-mailed Sharon Franz with Atlantic City's Steel Pier, because CNN.com has an article about the Santa Cruz boardwalk's 100th anniversary and in there they start out the article stating that this is the last year that the Steel Pier will be open - which is not true....

Santa Cruz boardwalk turns 100 (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TRAVEL/getaways/06/30/boardwalk.santacruz.ap/index.html)

SANTA CRUZ, California (AP) -- This year marks the final season for a couple of well-known seaside attractions on the East Coast -- Coney Island's Astroland and Atlantic City's Steel Pier. But on the West Coast, the summer of 2007 is merely another birthday for the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk...

I also e-mailed CNN.com about it, although it's of course an AP article. :roll:

As of right now the Steel Pier is going to be around next year and years to come.

07-06-2007, 09:16 PM
I got to meet Sam on the 4th of July and many other people including Maryanne. I had a great time, although I had a headache all day. Then it developed into a migraine and I had to leave 15 minutes before the fireworks. I knew I just was not going to be able to survive if I had to wait in that 45 minute traffic to get out of the park.

BTW - I wanted to let everyone know how New Jersey is getting dissed by the Live Earth promoters (http://forum.aboutnewjersey.com/showthread.php?t=2865) Not only are they saying that the concert is taking place in New York, they even have the NERVE to say that Giant Stadium is in New York!!!! You can read my e-mail I sent to them in the linked thread above.

07-17-2007, 03:11 PM
Seems like things haven't changed much. I've done some looking up on the subject of the Compact of 1834 and I'd appreciate it if someone would give me a link to the actual text of the agreement. I haven't been able to find it anywhere. I've found plenty of places that refer to it in regards to the Ellis Island case, but none that actually give a real text of the agreement.

New Jersey needs to renegotiate that agreement. Also, Staten Island ought to be part of New Jersey as per the initial charter of our colony.

06-24-2008, 02:27 AM
I figured I would post this here also. I wanted to let people know that I should be on the premiere episode of the Travel Channel's "Travel Fact or Fiction". To be honest - I do not know if this is good publicizing this. I do not know how well i did - I do not know if I'm included in it and I do not know how they will be presenting the information. Basically the episode was uncovering the fact that the Statue of Liberty is actually in the territorial waters of New JERSEY - NOT New York.

For more information check out the following thread - I will be appearing the Travel Channel's "Travel Fact or Fiction" (http://forum.aboutnewjersey.com/showthread.php?t=4016).