PDA

View Full Version : Consolidaton of NJ's northeastern cities



JerseyDevil
10-24-2005, 08:00 PM
I've thought about this a long time. I think it's time for New Jersey to consildate it's northeastern cities and make them into boroughs similar to NY. This is the only real way for NJ to compete with NY on a level playing field.

Elizabeth, Bayonne, Jersey City, Hoboken, Newark, etc to Fort Lee should all be joined into a single city - called New Jersey City. By this process, a lot of group planning can be done to improve the whole area. I know that a lot of people would be upset with the "loss of identity", and I've wrestled with that as well. But what would they rather have - a single vibrant city that is efficient and can stand head to head with NY, or continue to be considered the "suburbs of NY" that merely get the flowover businesses. Instead of hearing about us having ferry terminals being built to take people from NJ to Manhattan - I want to hear about ferry terminals being built to take people from Manhattan to New Jersey. This isn't going to happen unless NJ starts to take hard look at how to improve the northeast region and bring TRUE revitalization there.

NY would not have been able to grow the way it has if it hadn't annexed Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens and State Island into one city (Manhattan was the only borough which made up the original NY City).

Think of what a powerhouse this section of NJ could be. We would truly be able to give NY a run for it's money.

Compare this...

Size of NYC - 368 square miles; Population: 8 million

Size of major NJ northeastern cities -
Newark - 23.8 square miles; population: 273,546 (NJ's largest city)
Jersey City - 14.9 square miles; population: 240,055
East Rutherford - 3.8 square miles; population: 8,716
Fort Lee - 2.58 square miles; population: 35,461
Bayonne - 5.39 square miles; population: 61,842
Elizabeth - 11.69 square miles; population: 120,568
Hoboken - 1.97 square miles; population: 38,577

Now let's be honst here - there is no way a 23.8 square mile city with a population of only 273,000 can ever compete with a 368 square mile city with 8 million people. I truly feel it is time for this. It may have to be a stepped process - but we need to start working on this.

Here are the county facts...
Bergen - 246.75 square miles; population: 884,118
Essex - 129.56 square miles; population: 793,633
Hudson - 62.24 square miles; population: 608,975
Passaic - 193.81 square miles; population: 489,049
Union - 103.4 square miles; population: 522,541
---------------------------------------------
Total: 735.76 square miles; population: 3,298,316 (this is 41% of NJ's population, but only covers 8.45% of NJ)

Now I wouldn't combine all the full counties, for instance I would probably split Passaic and only include the eastern spur (around Paterson) and I would probably include the eastern part of Middlesex county which includes Perth Amboy. The resulting city would be able to better manage resources, such as fire and police, schools, roads, etc.

With the fiefdom mentality of NJ though, Im sure it will not happen anytime soon - maybe not even in my life time. But for NJ to truly compete with NY - I feel this is a necessary step.

As an added question - if NJ was to do this what would be th best way to go about it? Should we create the counties into boroughs and then have the cities make up sections within each borough?

MITHRANDIR
10-30-2005, 01:21 AM
Size of NYC - 368 square miles; Population: 8 million

Size of major NJ northeastern cities -
Newark - 23.8 square miles; population: 273,546 (NJ's largest city)
Jersey City - 14.9 square miles; population: 240,055
East Rutherford - 3.8 square miles; population: 8,716
Fort Lee - 2.58 square miles; population: 35,461
Bayonne - 5.39 square miles; population: 61,842
Elizabeth - 11.69 square miles; population: 120,568
Hoboken - 1.97 square miles; population: 38,577

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Here are the county facts...
Bergen - 246.75 square miles; population: 884,118
Essex - 129.56 square miles; population: 793,633
Hudson - 62.24 square miles; population: 608,975
Passaic - 193.81 square miles; population: 489,049
Union - 103.4 square miles; population: 522,541
---------------------------------------------
Total: 735.76 square miles; population: 3,298,316 (this is 41% of NJ's population, but only covers 8.45% of NJ)

Interesting facts you present.

If all of the areas you mentioned were consolidated (incorporated) into one city would it truely be governed effectively for all areas concerned?

Just look to NYC for one example: Tension between where development and improvements occur between Manhattan and the other NYC boroughs. Some people think that NYC does not treat all the boroughs equally when doing infrastructure improvements.

If the entire super city could be governed effectively, it could make some sense for creating one city instead of the current collection of 6-15 cities that currently exist.

I am not sure what would be the best way to create this super city.

JerseyDevil
11-01-2005, 05:17 PM
If all of the areas you mentioned were consolidated (incorporated) into one city would it truely be governed effectively for all areas concerned?

Just look to NYC for one example: Tension between where development and improvements occur between Manhattan and the other NYC boroughs. Some people think that NYC does not treat all the boroughs equally when doing infrastructure improvements.

Well of course there would be tensions, and competition, similar to NY. That would be an issue. Currently there is that issue with south Jersey versus north Jersey (At the Star Ledger tourism consumer show this past weekend someone from a south Jersey tourism council was asked by another south Jersey council why they were wearing a Jersey Devils hat, as if it was an out of state team. :roll: ).

As for NYC not treating all the boroughs equally - of course they don't. Manhattan gets the most support - Staten Island gets the least. A couple of years ago Staten Island was voting on seceding from NY. There wil obviously be competitions, and Newark and Jersey City would most likely remain the powerhouses, but I would think that Jersey City would expand throughout the Hudson coast and newark and Jersey City would eventually be connected.


If the entire super city could be governed effectively, it could make some sense for creating one city instead of the current collection of 6-15 cities that currently exist.

In order to manage a city like this, you realy need top rate managers, similar to Guiliani and Bloomberg. NY has had terrible mayors too - which really destroyed the city. A good mayor can make New Jersey City one of the top cities in the country though. Also, New Jersey City would rocket up to the 3rd largest city in the country, surpassing Chicago which has 2,862,244, Los Angeles has - 3,845,541 people.


I am not sure what would be the best way to create this super city.
It would take a lot of planning and be a huge undertaking. I think the first step would be to look at how NY is organized, the government structure and so forth. They have different representatives for each of the boroughs and neighborhoods. I'm not too familiar with the NY City government though. It would be something to look into.

We need to revitalize our cities, one of the reasons for property taxes being so high and NJ taxes being so high, is because the state supports the cities so much. The state needs to work at cutting the apron strings from the cities and make them live off their own.

beatman10
02-14-2006, 09:33 PM
cosolidate into one mega city. Or, at least, the cities shold be allowed to annex the smaller towns around them. For example, Newark, should be all of Essex County, with maybe Harrison and Kearny thrown in also. We probably wouldn't see this anytime soon, because of peoples' obsession with "HOME
RULE" which is a joke.

JerseyDevil
02-14-2006, 09:45 PM
cosolidate into one mega city. Or, at least, the cities shold be allowed to annex the smaller towns around them. For example, Newark, should be all of Essex County, with maybe Harrison and Kearny thrown in also. We probably wouldn't see this anytime soon, because of peoples' obsession with "HOME
RULE" which is a joke.

That coudl work - with Jersey City being all of Hudson County. But as you said, people will be against it because of home rule. There is a proposal in "Princeton" to combine the Princeton Borough and Princeton Township police departments (now Princeton Borough is only about 1.5 square miles), and there is an outcry against that even. Imagine what would happen if people suggested the cities start combining. :roll:

beatman10
02-14-2006, 10:33 PM
municipalities, and 612 school districts. We are being stangled by burocracy, and we allow it to happen. We must consolidate our cities for a unified state.
I live in southern New Jersey (notice I didn't write South Jersey) and I get
tired of feeling like a foreigner in my home state because I'm not from
Pennsylvania. It's bizarre!!

JerseyDevil
02-18-2006, 01:49 AM
municipalities, and 612 school districts. We are being stangled by burocracy, and we allow it to happen. We must consolidate our cities for a unified state.
I live in southern New Jersey (notice I didn't write South Jersey) and I get
tired of feeling like a foreigner in my home state because I'm not from
Pennsylvania. It's bizarre!!
I'm not at all surprised by your experience with being an outsider in your home state. NJ has a north/south divide problem I have discussed in other threads. I also post how at a tourism show there was a southern NJ representative with a New JERSEY devils hat on and another southern New JERSEY representative gave him a hard time because it wasn't a Flyers hat. Now at what point has the flyers become a NJ team? They don't play in NJ - they are a philadelphia team. (okay so this is off topic, but just like you - this is something that really upsets me).

beatman10
02-18-2006, 05:29 PM
so called "State of South Jersey" have either moved here from, or have strong ties to, Pennsylvania. For some reason, they don't want to discover
the entire state and they'll only drive as far north as the A.C Expressway because that's the road to take them back to Philly.
Also, politicans like to play the North/South card whenever it's convenient for them, like not following through on a campaign promise(remember the early 90's Initiative and Referendem scam? After being elected, the south Jersey politicans all did an about-face on I and R, claiming that North Jersey
would try dumping toxic waste in the pinelands.
Yes, and those great cities,NEW YORK and PHILLY:lmao: also like to keep the divide going because it keeps us Jerseyans attached to their coattails.
Yes it's DIVIDE and CONQUER in NJ!!:(

NJPRIDE
02-19-2006, 12:11 AM
First this Jerseyans is not attached to anyones coattails ,why should anybody be attached to NYC in any way if your from N.J. , NYC was the murder capital of the U.S.A. in 2005 . Why dont the late night jerks make fun of that like they did when it was announced Camden was the most dangerous city ? Second I dont buy N.Y. papers I buy the Star Ledger , I listen to N.J. radio stations 105.5 NEW JERSEYS own rock station and they let us know they are from N.J. and 101.5 PROUD TO BE NEW JERSEY ! Also at times I listen to 1450 WCTC out of New Brunswick . As far as news I watch news 12 or NJN . Thats all good enough for me .More positive news about N.J. last year was the # 1 ranking town to live in the country was here along with the #9 ,#15 and # 72 towns. N.Y. had 1 in the top 25 . Here in N.J. last year we were the #1 state in saving money N.Y.was # 37 seems to me we put them to shame there too ! And according to an article I came across in the paper , N.Y.C . has 100,000 toxic sites in it ,this is according to goverment documents .The city had plans to put the Olympics in the Willets Point section of Queens after the Manhatten stadium fell through the Queens site was called a chemical hell hole which as of June 19 ,2005 would cost taxpayers $12.5 million to clean up .Keep in mind that was to clean up just that one site . Well I just destroyed N.Y.C. ,let me see what dirt I can dig up on Filthadelphia . One other thing I drink good old Wiedenmayers Jersey Lager or any other micro brew from Jersey . NEW JERSEY HISTORY SECOND TO NONE !

sir lord baltimore
03-09-2006, 05:48 AM
here's some of my ideas for municipalities that should incorporate. take in mind also, that 100 years ago Newark did include many of its surrounding towns, Paterson included Clifton, Passaic, Little Falls, W Paterson. Ridgefield included Fort Lee and other towns nearby. Edison included Highland Park and Metuchen. Bridgewtaer included Somerville, Raritan, Bound Brook, etc. list could go on

Newark could include all of the Oranges, Irvington, Maplewood, Bloomfield, Belleville, and Nutley. making it a city of over 550,000

Jersey City could include pehaps all of Hudson county, tho i'm sure Hoboken and Bayonne have way too much historical pride to annex themselves, but perhaps annexing Union City, Weehawken, Guttenberg, North Bergen and West New York could work. if the latter were done the city would have a pop over 500,000

Fort Lee could include Ridgefield, Fairview, Edgewater, Cliffside Park, Leonia, Palisades Park and maybe even the Englewoods. making it a city of over 150,000

Elizabeth could include Linden, Rahway, the Roselles. and maybe Hillside, Union, Kenilworth as suburbs. making it a city near or over 300,000

Paterson could include Clifton, Passaic, West Paterson, maybe little falls to match the original charter. making it a city over 300,000

New Brunswick could possibly annex Highland Park and maybe Somerset from Franklin. or perhaps it could add North and East Brunswick, Milltown and South River. making it a city of nearly 150,000

and beyond North Jersey, i could even see Trenton annexing Ewing and the White Horse section of Hamilton, and Camden annexing Pennsauken, Gloucester City and the many small towns and boros nearby.

a lot of towns would be dissolved off of the books, but they'd still exist in name as neighborhoods. you could refer to Belleville as the Belleville neighborhood of Newark, or Weehawken as the Weehawken section of Jersey City, or Union City could become Little Cuba, etc. i think if its promoted the right way, and the benefits are laid bare, it could have real possibilities. every small town still needs to be run by a local government, and the cost of police, lawyers, school board, etc. add up, so why burden ourselves with more positions to fill, more pensions? lets cut the fat and put the money to use in larger, stronger, more vital communities.

JerseyDevil
03-13-2006, 10:17 PM
Sir lord Baltimore - I like your plans. I know that many towns and cities were at one point part of another, but seperated for one reason or another. I have a book called "Multiple Municipal Madness" that goes into how many of these towns were seperated. It's pathetic.

There is a town with only 24 people currently - it was 1921 when Tavistock was created. It was a country club, but the town it was in (Center Township in Camden County) was going to make it illegal to golf on Sundays and there were already laws against drinking after golfing. So the club decided to form their own municipality. Well the governor, who could not run again and was a diehard golfer, approved the country club into becoming it's own municipality. Today the municipality of Tavistock still exists, but is it necessary anymore? Was it even necessary then or was it merely the usual political palm greasing that goes on in New Jersey, that gave us Tavistock and so many other useless municipalities and government waste?

Marianita
03-15-2006, 01:45 AM
Hi Jersey devil, After reading the posts I can see the wisdom in combining the cities into one. But do you think it will ever happen? Marianita

AngryAmerican
03-15-2006, 07:51 PM
I haven't given this idea as much thought as you guys have, but New Jersey City would have one hell of a basketball team. :D

Marianita
03-16-2006, 01:33 AM
Hi Angry American, They sure would. I happen to think that if the cities were combined into one, what would happen to all the addresses of the residents? They would have to change the name of their city on their address. lol. It probably won't happen. Not only are there alot of cities in New Jersey but they are under townships. So that would have to change too. Am I making sense? lol. :) Marianita

JerseyDevil
03-16-2006, 09:52 AM
I happen to think that if the cities were combined into one, what would happen to all the addresses of the residents? They would have to change the name of their city on their address. lol.

Actually they wouldn't have to change their city name on their addresses, just ike with NY - people still have Brooklyn and Bronx as their city for the address, but those cities are now all part of NY, which originally just included Manhattan.


It probably won't happen. Not only are there alot of cities in New Jersey but they are under townships. So that would have to change too. Am I making sense? lol. :) Marianita
It won't happen for a number of reasons, one being NJ's problem of everyone wanting their own little fiefdom. The Princeton's used to be one municipailty - then they seperated. Now they are talking about combining the police force, etc into one unit and the citizens are outraged. All you see in Princeton packet are how one or the other will be short changed, the police won't respond as quickly, etc. It's rather ridiculous that a 1.7 square mile area insists on having it's own police force.

Marianita
03-16-2006, 07:13 PM
Well Jersey Devil, It is a fact that people do not as a rule go for change. We get comfortable with the way things are. But you are right. It seems ridiculous that 1.7 square mile has their own police force. I wonder how many officers it has. lol.New Jersey City does sound good don't you think? I was not aware that New York had combined the cities. Marianita:)

NewarkDevil5
05-01-2006, 01:59 PM
I've brought this idea up so many times over the past few years on so many different message boards (mostly Devils boards) but it remains the best idea for New Jersey. In my opinion it would be more manageable to simply get rid of the municipalities within the counties and have the county seat assume the responsibilities of city hall. While I love the idea of the megacity and have proposed it before, for one thing the cities weren't really planned that way. Union County was planned as part of Elizabeth. Essex was all an outgrowth of Newark. Passaic is mostly an outgrowth of Paterson/Passaic, etc.

Marianita
05-01-2006, 11:09 PM
Hi newarkdevil, It is probable doable but it would take a lot of planning and probably a long time to finish.As I said before people are reluctant to change but actually the idea is sound. There are so many small cities within the state and it might be easier to combine them. Has anyone really thought about this? If NY did it NJ can do it. Marianita:)

NewarkDevil5
05-03-2006, 09:39 PM
I'm not saying it isn't doable, I'm simply saying that, given that you've got the infrastructure already layed out a certain way, it would be easier to do it that way. The infrastructure of the counties in northeastern New Jersey are pretty much all laid out so that the county seat is simply the center of the city that is the entire county. Some counties have two centers, like Middlesex with New Brunswick and Perth Amboy or Monmouth with Long Branch-Red Bank and Freehold. What might make more sense would be to have a New Jersey City made up of the borough of Newark (Essex County), borough of Elizabeth (Union County), Borough of Paterson (Passaic County), Borough of Hackensack (Bergen County), and Borough of Paulus Hook (Hudson). Then you could split Middlesex and Monmouth into two cities each. Trenton would become all of Mercer County, Camden would encompass Gloucester, Camden and most of Burlington Counties, Atlantic City would take up all of Atlantic County, Toms River would become the epicenter of Ocean County, Cape May would become one city, Cumberland another city centered around Vineland-Millville and Salem would become one city. Northwestern New Jersey could have another city in Morris County centered around Morristown, but the rest of it would be difficult to urbanize since there aren't too many other urban centers in that area. Perhaps Phillipsburg and Newton could draw the areas around them, but that area in general might just be better off Balkanized.

NewarkDevil5
05-03-2006, 09:46 PM
One other thing, here's a post I made on this subject on a New Jersey Devils board I post on years ago:

http://www.njdevs.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12368&hl=

JerseyDevil
05-03-2006, 10:09 PM
NewarkDevil5 - I haven't had time to welcome you, so welcome. :wave:

I agree with the northeastern part of the state being consolidated, Jersey City, Newark, etc. I just can't see it being beneficial for the rest of the state to be consolidated in a like fasion. I can see the two Princeton's become one, but I do not agree with them becoming part of Trenton. It's just not a metropolitan area.

I agreed with the consolidation of the NJ universities being folded into Rutgers and the school being renamed "New Jersey University" with each individual college being mentioned at the end - such as - "New Jersey University Rutgers" etc. Of course that was shot down for the same reason consolidating the cities would be shot down. People don't want to lose their identity. Yet what is ironic about that is that no one has a problem with the numerous items in NJ which carry the NY name. The only way for New Jersey cities to become power houses is to joint together and consolidate. Los Angeles has a huge population, but it's also half the size of Rhode Island. :rolls:

NewarkDevil5
05-03-2006, 10:46 PM
Perhaps Mercer would be best served becoming two cities, Trenton and Princeton. I also could see the case being made for parts of southern New Jersey and northwestern New Jersey remaining balkanized, but more than just the northeast portion could be turned into one city. Monmouth could easily be divided into two cities. Middlesex as well. A good chunk of Ocean County could be merged into Toms River. Most of Camden, Burlington and Gloucester could be merged into Camden.

In my opinion, Rutgers College (College Avenue Campus) should be allowed to slowly return to being a private institution as should the University of Newark (Rutgers-Newark). Rutgers-Camden should become the eventually private University of Camden. Cook/Douglas should become the eventually private University of New Brunswick. Busch/Livingston should become the new centerpiece of a new University of New Jersey-North and a new campus should be opened up in Vineland/Millville as University of New Jersey-South. In other college affairs, parking spaces on college campuses in New Jersey should be limited and statutes passed making it mandatory for students to live on campus for the first year at least with encouragement to schools who mandate the first two years.

See on the one hand its ok for some schools to maintain their history, but there should be at least a few schools that bear the name of their cities and of the state.

JerseyDevil
05-03-2006, 11:21 PM
I highly recommend the book Municipal Madness (http://www.aboutnewjersey.com/Store/books.php). It's the last book on the page.

sir lord baltimore
05-23-2006, 04:22 AM
sometime in the 60's the city of Vineland annexed a bordering town. that was the last time any significant annexation took place. i always thought Vineland should have also annexed the bordering city of Millville. in a setting like Vineland, which is basically a more rural city if there is such a thing, experimenting with this sort of annexation could be less damaging and more easily reversed.

i do think it is really possible for many cities in New Jersey to expand their borders. it just needs to start small. for instance, Edison/Metuchen/Highland Park becoming one town again, all 3 municipalities are already within each other and were formerly one municipality. this would allow the benefits and downfalls of municipal annexation to play out in a less drastic climate. the same can be said for Bridgewater/Somerville/Raritan/Bound Brook, Princeton Boro/Princeton Twp, Bordentown City/Bordentown Twp, Freehold Boro/Freehold Twp, Burlington City/Burlington Twp., the Wildwoods, Pemberton Boro/Twp, each of these less densely population, and already closely related. once the benefits of this consolidation play out on a small scale, they'd be an easier sell for applying it to a larger scale, say turning most of Hudson county into Jersey City.

the hurdle of citizens voting these kinds of annexation down are very real, just look at the Princetons, Princeton Twp is all game, the Boro is not. and that sell will be even harder for cities and towns with different histories and names. Hoboken is basically within Jersey City, but Hoboken also has a rich and storied history. convincing residents to annex with JC would seem near impossible. at the same token look at Woodbridge. Woodbridge is a town comprised of 10 communities. Avenel, Hopelawn, etc., they are all their own places, but in the end are a part of a larger community. Hoboken would still be Hoboken in the end, just a part of Jersey City.

imagine the benefits of Jersey City growing in size. for starters, it'd make it much harder to ignore JC. it's a major city but it is looked over constantly, but if JC annexed much of Hudson county, a population around 600,000 would be hard to ignore. it is already the most densely populated major American city outside of New York City. and it's not like attempts haven't been made to promote the city. for one, the movie industry has always had interest in JC, but it is also frustrating on their end, filming in such a limited area. go a few blocks too far you're in Hoboken, or Union City. it's cheaper to just go somewhere else where there's more miles to film within. beyond the film industry, annexation would allow developement to be concentrated around a city center, and promote a skyline. companies who locate to New Jersey have many options, Englewood Cliffs, Fort Lee, Hackensack, Rochelle Park, etc. if Northern Jersey was comprised of 4 major cities, Paterson, Newark, Elizabeth, Jersey City, then these companies might be more inclined to locate into downtowns, and public trasnportation would also be easier to manage.

either way, something must be done, property taxes are too high, our cities are under utilized, and frankly uncared about outside and inside the state.

here's some reworked ideas for what could one be NJ's major cities

Newark/the Oranges/Belleville/Nutley/Kearny/Harrison/East Newark/Bloomfield/Irvington/Maplewood

Elizabeth/Linden/Rahway/the Roselles/Hillside/Union/Kenilworth

Jersey City/Hoboken/Bayonne/Union City/West New York/North Bergen/Guttenberg/Weehawken

Paterson/Passaic/Clifton/West Paterson/Little Falls

New Brunswick/E Brunswick/North Brunswick/Milltown/South River

Trenton/Ewing/Hamilton

Camden/Gloucester City/Haddon/Oaklyn/Collingswood/Audubons/Woodlynne/Pennsauken/Merchantville (maybe one day move some of that Cherry Hill boom to the Camden waterfront)

Vineland/Millville

Toms River/Island Heights/maybe Lakewood

pretty extravagant ideas there. maybe one of them will come true.

NewarkDevil5
05-23-2006, 01:17 PM
Perth Amboy, Woodbridge and Carteret.

Edison, Metuchen, Highland Park, New/East/South Brunswick, South River, Franklin Township, Bound Brook.

All of Essex County as well as Kearny, Harrison, East Newark and North Arlington.

All of Union County.

All of Hudson County except Kearny, Harrison, and East Newark.

Absecon, Atlantic City, Brigantine, Egg Harbor Township, Linwood, Longport, Margate City, Northfield, Pleasantville, Somers Point, and Ventnor City.

All of Camden County except Chesilhurst, Winslow TWP, and Waterford TWP.

Chesilhurst, Winslow TWP, and Waterford TWP.

Glassboro, Pitman, and Clayton.

Avon-By-The-Sea, Neptune City, Bradley Beach, Neptune TWP, Tinton Falls, Ocean TWP, Asbury Park, Interlaken, Loch Arbour, Allenhurst, Deal, Long Branch, West Long Branch, Eatontown, Oceanport, Fair Haven, Red Bank, Monmouth Beach, Shrewsbury, Shrewsbury TWP, Rumson, and Sea Bright.

Wall TWP, Brielle, Manasquan, Sea Girt, Spring Lake, Spring Lake Heights, Belmar, and Lake Como.

Matawan, Aberdeen TWP, Holmdel TWP, Hazlet TWP, Keyport, Union Beach, Keansburg, Higlands, Atlantic Highlands, and Middletown TWP.

South Amboy, Sayreville, and Old Bridge.

beatman10
05-26-2006, 01:48 PM
and Newark Devil came up with. The only problem I see is that we still need the ONE BIG CITY that is the showcase of NJ. Or else you will have all these newly consolidated cities fighting one another for funds, jobs, etc. kind of like they do now!!
If we can make one city the financial, sports and entertainment hub of the state, maybe it help unify people in NJ. I already know of a city that would do the role nicely, but people's perceptions about that city will have to change first. Anyway, we'll have to do something soon about all these municipalities and school districts soon, or we'll wake up one morning and we'll see the New York State flag flying on our city buildings!:(

NewarkDevil5
05-27-2006, 02:46 PM
Three cities made up of Essex County, Union County and Hudson County could make up the Tri-City area that would pull the vast bulk of investment. Essex, due to its central location and easy access, as well as the fact that it already has the largest population, would most likely wind up with the most pull and the most investment.

JerseyDevil
01-18-2007, 02:02 PM
I figured I'd revive this thread again. I'm reading "New Jersey's Municipal Madness" which discusses the many reasons New Jersey has 566 independent municipalities. It also discusses what forces prevented our cities from getting to national prominence. It is very interesting. Do You know there is a municipality that is actually a country club and has "no trespassing signs"?

We need to rejoin these towns. We need to reverse the "municipal multiplication" of the past. The problem is that it's a power thing. The leaders of these 566 municipalities don't want to give up their control. New Jersey could be so much of a stronger state if we weren't always fighting amongst ourselves. Neighboring municipalities fighting amongst each other, northern NJ fighting with southern NJ, suburban fighting with urban. We need to take pride in our state, our cities.

I have been hating the suburban creep for some time. The lack of any town square. The lack of any developmental vision. The shore region seems to be developing into a suburban nightmare. Bricktown isn't the small town I once grew up in. It's now big box town. Toms River is just as bad, with traffic unbearable. All this affects quality of life.

We should be putting more energy into reviving our great cities, Camden, New Brunswick, Newark, Asbury Park, Perth Amboy, Jersey City, Atlantic City, etc. We should limit suburban sprawl. We should reduce the number of municipalities. Most NJ municipalities are only 2 square miles in size. These 566 municipalities all fighting for the same ratables, while trying to keep the expenses (hospitals, schools, etc) down. Instead of corporations building headquarters in our great cities, they are enticed to move to the suburbs and develop corporate parks on what was once beautiful bountiful farmland.

New Jersey has to start to look at our future. Do we want to be a sprawling suburb, with no cities? Do we really want our communities to be so cookie cutter that where you live is just like any other suburb in the US? You look at Bricktown and Toms River now and there is no difference anymore. They've lost their identity. Driving along 72 to Long Beach Island is no different than driving on Rt 37 through Toms River anymore.

I don't think New Jersey politicians get it though. One of Corzines great plans, since the selling of the toll roads hasn't gotten any support, is to allow malls and box stores to open up along the turnpike. Great, more sprawl, more eye sores, more of the same....

MITHRANDIR
01-18-2007, 09:08 PM
I don't think New Jersey politicians get it though. One of Corzines great plans, since the selling of the toll roads hasn't gotten any support, is to allow malls and box stores to open up along the turnpike. Great, more sprawl, more eye sores, more of the same....

This would be sad. On thing that I like about the GSP is that there are (with exception of the limited service areas) no malls, stores, etc connected (directly) to it and the drive is very scenic is some areas.

This would only lead to more traffic and congestion on these thoroughfares and defeat their designed purpose: To move traffic efficiently and safely.

I oppose the leasing of the turnpike or other public properties.
If our politicians cannot properly manage the money they currently receive, what makes us think they will be able to properly manage the money from leasing the roadway.

This will only encourage disrepair of competing roadways.
The roads are currently paid for (via tolls) and they should be maintained by more efficient (ie non-toll) method. (fuel-tax is one example that comes to mind, although other methods do exist.)

Politicians need to properly manage the money we currently receive.

The state needs to get out of areas that are not its concern.

State needs to spend the dollars we do receive in a more intelligent and practical way than how it currently spends money today.

I think one legitimate concern that small towns and municipalities have is what will happen to them when they merge into a larger group.

Will the needs of all in the new larger group be met in an equitable manner?
Will some areas be shortchanged while other areas benefit at their expense?

If we have good leaders and sensible management, this should not be an issue.

Marianita
01-19-2007, 02:04 PM
Hi Jersey Devil, I do not know who makes the decision to consolidate but here is how I feel about it. I think that many people feel that the small town atmosphere may be lost in consolidation.That would be like our cities here, Reedley, Dinuba, Parlier, Sanger, Fowler being consolidated. I am sure there would many advantages but the problem is implementing the changes. Anything that looks tacky should be discouraged as New Jersey is known for it's beauty. Perhaps working on the cities you mentioned and making improvements would help. Corzine always has plans in mind, usually having to do with taxing something.lol. As for the consolidation I would think that it most certainly can be done provided there is co-operation of all parties involved. It would be a large undertaking. Marianita

beatman10
01-23-2007, 10:54 PM
consolidation here. In the long run, we can save $$, but how do you get the surrounding Essex and Union suburbs to merge with Newark and Elizabeth? Many people up there would rather be annexed by NY than join forces with Newark, even if merging would make a stronger NJ mega-city on an even keel with NYC. Then you got the southern Jersey politicans who would fight it, using the old north/south argument, although merging could open up the same opportunities for Camden and surrounding areas to become a big city separate from Philly.There just isn't enough state pride or vision in our leaders and most unfortunately, our people.:(

Marianita
01-24-2007, 12:08 AM
Hi beatmen, Here is how this can be accomplished: Find a way to convince people that the Exxex and Union suberbs merging with Newark would take them no furthur from NYC then they already are. It would be merely a consolidation to save money. I think it could be done but Corzine might not go for it. The fact that it would save money should be a help and Camden would benefit. I am not sure it is a lack of pride so much as it is the fact that many people are not aware that it can be done. Marianita

Roadbldr '59
03-12-2007, 03:47 AM
cosolidate into one mega city. Or, at least, the cities shold be allowed to annex the smaller towns around them. For example, Newark, should be all of Essex County, with maybe Harrison and Kearny thrown in also. We probably wouldn't see this anytime soon, because of peoples' obsession with "HOME
RULE" which is a joke.

You might be able to annex Upper Montclair, the Caldwells, Livingston et al into Newark... around the year 2040. That's about when the last people with vivid memories of the '67 Riots will kick the bucket. Until the middle of the 21st Century you'll have a sizeable chunk of people... voting people... who remember how afraid they were back then, and who'd rather move or die than live in "the armpit of the Northeast".

Marianita
03-12-2007, 11:48 AM
Hi roadbldr, Newark is mostly industrial so it lacks the beauty that the rest od Jersey has. By the way I have to laugh at what was said about people who remember the riots of 67 kicking the bucket. I remember them well.:lmao: I lived in Los Angeles during that time. Anyway isn't Upper Montclair a bit too nice to combine with Newark? But why would it take so darn long?:)

JerseyDevil
03-12-2007, 12:47 PM
The thing that gets me about the Newark Riots it's as if it was a New Jersey thing merely restricted to Newark. There were race riots all over this country at that time. It's as if Americans don't want to face this so they want to just forget and act as if it was merely a Newark thing. Why is New Jersey always saddled with it's negative past while it's proud heritage is just swept under the rug?

Concerning the comment about Newark being industrial - it's not industrial. The surrounding area is industrial. However Newark is the 3rd oldest city in America and has beautiful churches, museums, entertainment venues and include Branch Brook Park which was designed by the same person who did Central Park in Manhattan. Branch Brook Park also features more cherry trees than Washington DC and has a much larger Cherry Blossom Festival than Washington.

Although Newark has gone through a rough time, if our politicians worried about New Jersey cities, instead of subsidizing New York's economy, Newark can once again grow. The Prudential Center is going to be beautiful with a new park at the entrance called Triangle Park.

Does Newark still have problems? Of course it does - but that doesn't mean things aren't changing for the better.

Roadbldr '59
03-12-2007, 09:23 PM
Hi roadbldr, Newark is mostly industrial so it lacks the beauty that the rest od Jersey has. By the way I have to laugh at what was said about people who remember the riots of 67 kicking the bucket. I remember them well.:lmao: I lived in Los Angeles during that time. Anyway isn't Upper Montclair a bit too nice to combine with Newark? But why would it take so darn long?:)

Hey, Mari,

Newark, lack beauty? Not true... not intrinsically anyway. Harrison and Ellizabeth are far more industrial than Newark is. When my parents bought their house in the Weequahic section of Newark's South Ward in 1964, it looked much as Upper Montclair does today. It was a wonderful place to live back then, until around 1970. The only reason Newark looks the way it does is because most of the people living there now feel, to paraphrase a movie I once saw, "It's normal for things to be shi**y".

I'm not sure I agree with Jersey Devil that the riots are seen as a New Jersey thing restricted to Newark. Truth is, I don't really know how other people feel about any of it. For myself, race riots may have happened all across the country, but only the ones in Newark happened to me. There's something about being seven years old... seeing the building across the street from your Dad's law office firebombed live on TV... the National Guard standing between your edge-of-town middle-class neighborhood, and angry mobs itching to burn your house down... that you never, ever forget.

Roadbldr '59
03-12-2007, 09:30 PM
Concerning the comment about Newark being industrial - it's not industrial. The surrounding area is industrial. However Newark is the 3rd oldest city in America and has beautiful churches, museums, entertainment venues and include Branch Brook Park which was designed by the same person who did Central Park in Manhattan. Branch Brook Park also features more cherry trees than Washington DC and has a much larger Cherry Blossom Festival than Washington.



Speaking of parks, is anyone here familliar with Brookdale Park on the Upper Montclair/Bloomfield town line? I used to play there as a kid back in the late 60s, on daily field trips with the YM/YWCA Day Camp ...called the "Summer Fun Club" back then. It's a wonderful little park... I still go running there whenever I'm in North Jersey and have the time.

Marianita
03-13-2007, 12:04 AM
Hi Jersey Devil, The way you described Newark makes me want to go there. Are the cathedrals open during the days to see? It sounds pretty. As for riots they do occur all over the country, not just in one place. I would like to see the Branch Brook park. So I will run that by my son. I think we are going to have a full agenda. Thankyou for the info. :) Marianita

Marianita
03-13-2007, 12:13 AM
Hi roadbldr, I can well understand how bad you must have felt during the riots and only being 7 yrs old. I was a young adult when the Los Angeles riots broke out and I thought the Lord was getting ready to come back. I could not go visit my friends and they could not come visit me. Those memories are not pleasant.
I would like to see Newark and will do. The cathedrals that Jersey Devil spoke of sound like something I want to see. I saw cathedrals in Mexico and they were awesome. So now I know that Newark is not industrial but only the surrounding areas. More Jersey stuff for me to learn. lol. I am soaking it up like a sponge. Marianita

Roadbldr '59
03-13-2007, 01:25 AM
There is the red granite grandeur of Trinity Cathedral, built the same year Thomas Jefferson was born (1743). That is the Episcopal Church I attended with my parents, and where my sister got married the first time. It's located in Military Park, in the triangle formed by Broad Street, Park Place and another street I can't recall, across the street from the Newark Y I mentioned above.

A quarter-mile away are the Newark Museum and the world-class Newark Public Library. I attended science and art classes at the Museum in the early and mid 70s... and I can still smell the sweet, dusty must of the Library's Bookstacks even now!

So don't get me wrong... I too would like to see Newark prosper once again. But I don't think that will happen so long as it's largely populated by people who think so little of themselves and their surroundings. Either the current residents will have to undergo a mass personality transformation... or pack their things and move elsewhere. A little Rudy Giuliani-style, zero-tolerance, "broken windows" policy is in order... it might help bring one of those two outcomes about, and frankly either one works for me.

Roadbldr '59
03-13-2007, 01:33 AM
Hi roadbldr, I can well understand how bad you must have felt during the riots and only being 7 yrs old. I was a young adult when the Los Angeles riots broke out and I thought the Lord was getting ready to come back. I could not go visit my friends and they could not come visit me. Those memories are not pleasant.
I would like to see Newark and will do. The cathedrals that Jersey Devil spoke of sound like something I want to see. I saw cathedrals in Mexico and they were awesome. So now I know that Newark is not industrial but only the surrounding areas. More Jersey stuff for me to learn. lol. I am soaking it up like a sponge. Marianita

Mari,

The industrial parts of Newark are generally between Frelinghuysen Avenue (Rte. 27) and Newark Airport/Port Newark, and along McCarter Highway (Rte. 21)... in other words, close to rail, air and water shipping. Most of the rest of the city is residential and light commercial.

Marianita
03-13-2007, 01:48 AM
Hi roadbldr, It seems to me that people have grown comfortable in the environment. I think it might take people from the outside to come in and make the needed changes. Maybe a consolidation is in order.
It sounds as if it it were an ideal place to live when you were there. Times have changed. For it to prosper it will take a group effort if and enthusiam on someones part. hard to say really. It can be done I am sure. Marianita

Marianita
03-13-2007, 02:02 AM
Hi roadbldr, That is interesting. Actually I do not know what made me think Newark was industrial in the first place. How does one go about getting a place restored to what it was? Apparently some of the beauty remains. Marianita

JerseyDevil
03-13-2007, 12:10 PM
This discussion should really be moved into the Newark thread (http://forum.aboutnewjersey.com/showthread.php?t=337), it's starting to get off topic. :) Anyway - here is a video from the Devils website about the Prudential Center (http://www.newjerseydevils.com/njd/prucenter/brochure/video/player.html) and what is being built around the area. I think you will start to see a big change in Newark over the years. Not only is the arena going in, but they're building a park, office and hotels and restaurants around the arena.

As for Newark taking a Guiliani - take no prisoners - attitude on crime - well Newark FINALLY got their first police helicopter to combat crime. Booker seems to be taking the situation in Newark seriously wants to really make changes. I see Newark changing. I would like it to be a city New Jerseyans can be proud of. While Jersey City seems to be developing into just a suburb of New York - I hope Newark will not fall into that trap. Newark has a great history as I have said before and it is ridiculous that it is in the shape it is in . A little more than ten years ago - no one would have thought of moving to Jersey City or Hoboken, now people are flocking there will million dollar penthouses.

Roadbldr '59
03-14-2007, 01:35 AM
This discussion should really be moved into the Newark thread (http://forum.aboutnewjersey.com/showthread.php?t=337), it's starting to get off topic. :) Anyway - here is a video from the Devils website about the Prudential Center (http://www.newjerseydevils.com/njd/prucenter/brochure/video/player.html) and what is being built around the area. I think you will start to see a big change in Newark over the years. Not only is the arena going in, but they're building a park, office and hotels and restaurants around the arena.

As for Newark taking a Guiliani - take no prisoners - attitude on crime - well Newark FINALLY got their first police helicopter to combat crime. Booker seems to be taking the situation in Newark seriously wants to really make changes. I see Newark changing. I would like it to be a city New Jerseyans can be proud of. While Jersey City seems to be developing into just a suburb of New York - I hope Newark will not fall into that trap. Newark has a great history as I have said before and it is ridiculous that it is in the shape it is in . A little more than ten years ago - no one would have thought of moving to Jersey City or Hoboken, now people are flocking there will million dollar penthouses.

True... I hope. Then again, I've seen too many "Newark revivals" invariably sink back into "same stuff, different year", so I guess I'm still cynical about it all. Still, I do remember how proud everyone was at Newark 300 (1666-1966), and watching the Veterans' Day parade from a balcony in City Hall when I was five or six. And a couple times a year I have dreams about buying back my family's old house in the Weequahic neighborhood. Who knows? Maybe those days will come again. Probably too late for me, though :( .

Marianita
03-14-2007, 06:38 PM
Hi Roadbldr, You never know what can happen in your lifetime. I never thought I would get to return to the east coast until my son got a job there. I had no reason to go there anymore. As for the revivals and slipping back that seems to apply to many places. Hopefully with this new govenor things will change for the better. Marianita:)

Roadbldr '59
03-15-2007, 01:10 AM
Hi Roadbldr, You never know what can happen in your lifetime. I never thought I would get to return to the east coast until my son got a job there. I had no reason to go there anymore. As for the revivals and slipping back that seems to apply to many places. Hopefully with this new govenor things will change for the better. Marianita:)

I actually get back to NJ quite a bit with my girlfriend from Arlington VA. Her sister and family live in Long Valley, in Western Morris County. I'd love to retire to New Jersey in another twenty years... but I don't think I could live in Newark proper ever again.

Marianita
03-15-2007, 08:33 PM
Hi Roadbldr, Twenty years is a long time. And New Jersey has many other places to offer for an ideal retirement place. You never know how Newark will be in 20 years. It may be an ideal place to retire by the time you are ready. Marianita