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JerseyDevil
09-14-2005, 05:28 PM
So who is it - Forrester or Corzine? Who do you think would do the best job for NJ? Personally I'm rather sick of the same old campaign promises - "lower property taxes", "stop corruption", etc, etc. These have been the campaign promises for years and years. Look at McGreevey's campaign and his was one of the most corrupt of ALL the governors in recent memory.

I personally don't see what the democrats really do for NJ. Many of them have been the worst - anyone remember Florio? So what has Corzine done for NJ while being in Congress? What will Forrester really do - or will it be the same old same old.

I want someone who will support NJ and fight for OUR interests. I want someone who won't sell the state out to NY interests (I just found out that the gift shops in Liberty State Park , OUR STATE PARK, charge NY taxes and the money goes to NY :rolleyes: )

I think that one thing that would reduce property taxes would be promoting and bringing in tourists. Tourists pay a lot of taxes and support a lot of local businesses (restaurants, gas stations, grocery stores, hotels, etc) but they don't require a huge investent of infustructure like police, firefighters, schools or hospitals. I feel this would help to bring down property taxes.

MITHRANDIR
09-15-2005, 09:20 AM
So who is it - Forrester or Corzine? Who do you think would do the best job for NJ? Personally I'm rather sick of the same old campaign promises - "lower property taxes", "stop corruption", etc, etc. These have been the campaign promises for years and years. Look at McGreevey's campaign and his was one of the most corrupt of ALL the governors in recent memory.

I personally don't see what the democrats really do for NJ. Many of them have been the worst - anyone remember Florio? So what has Corzine done for NJ while being in Congress? What will Forrester really do - or will it be the same old same old.

I want someone who will support NJ and fight for OUR interests. I want someone who won't sell the state out to NY interests (I just found out that the gift shops in Liberty State Park , OUR STATE PARK, charge NY taxes and the money goes to NY :rolleyes: )

I think that one thing that would reduce property taxes would be promoting and bringing in tourists. Tourists pay a lot of taxes and support a lot of local businesses (restaurants, gas stations, grocery stores, hotels, etc) but they don't require a huge investent of infustructure like police, firefighters, schools or hospitals. I feel this would help to bring down property taxes.


I think that Forrester would be a better choice than Corzine, but I am not sure that things will be much better with Forrester.

I did not know that bit of info about the Liberty State Park. On the surface, it does not make sense that the Park (which is in NJ and not even in the water) would send its money to the state of NY.

One thing that would help property taxes is if the local school budget was not tied directly to property taxes. If NJ had a different system of paying for Education (not tied to Property taxes) then property taxes would immediately be reduced by 40-60% depending on where one lived.

Granted the money for education would come from another area, but I am sure we could determine a better way to fund education.

JerseyDevil
09-15-2005, 12:01 PM
I think that Forrester would be a better choice than Corzine, but I am not sure that things will be much better with Forrester.

I also think Forrester will be a better choice. I'm 99% likely to vote for him, but I'm still not happy with the campaign promises. It's just the same old same old from both sides.


I did not know that bit of info about the Liberty State Park. On the surface, it does not make sense that the Park (which is in NJ and not even in the water) would send its money to the state of NY.

I found that little bit of information form a superindendant of one of the state parks - I was talking about how they only sell NY crap there and it's our most visited state park and how NJ doesn't utilize it to promote NJ. They then asked me if I had ever looked at the sales reciept at th Liberty State Park gift shops. I told hm no - because they only sell NY crap - so I refuse to buy from them. They then told me that they charge the 8.5% sales tax and the money goes to NY. It was some deal the NJ politicians made with NY. WHY???? What the hell does NY have to do with what is sold in NJ? What politician got some kick back from NY to put this into effect?



One thing that would help property taxes is if the local school budget was not tied directly to property taxes. If NJ had a different system of paying for Education (not tied to Property taxes) then property taxes would immediately be reduced by 40-60% depending on where one lived.

Granted the money for education would come from another area, but I am sure we could determine a better way to fund education.
That's the thing - the money has to come from somewhere - and except for the poor school districts - schools are supported by local taxes. Contrary to most people's ideas - the poor school distrcts actually spend MORE money per student than the wealther school districts. It's just the poor school districts are given a lot of state money. Obviously throwing more money at the poor school districts isn't the answer.

JerseyDevil
09-16-2005, 01:27 AM
I just sent this letter to Forrester's campaign...



Dear XXXXX

I know Bill Spadea, we're both on the Princeton Battlefield Area Preservation Society and he suggested I write to you. I have talked to him several times about what Doug Forrester is going to do for New Jersey that is different than any other candidate. To be honest, talking to Chris Pordon, Bill Spadea or seeing Doug and now his wife on TV still does not give me any clear idea of what he's going to do. It just seems to be the same old same old. How many times in the past several elections have we heard about "lower property taxes", "eliminate corruption" and "work for New Jerseyans". Listen to McGreevey's old campaign speeches and he said the very same thing. I don't remember a much more scandalous governor than McGreevey, yet it's the same campaign promises everyone is making today. So how is Forrester going to be different?

I'll tell you what disturbs me and what really needs to change. I run a website that promotes NJ tourism. I have traveled to 40 states and lived in six of them. I am a native New Jerseyan who LOVES New Jersey and could not wait to be back. The thing that bothers me so much is how much New Jersey politicians sell out New Jersey to the highest bidder - mostly to NY interests. Here is an example - the Giants Stadium deal. Here we have a team, whose home has been New Jersey for THREE DECADES and three years ago decides that it has to have NY on it's uniform. (this is the same team that Mayor Koch said was a New Jersey team and he refused to give them a ticker-tape parade when they won the Super Bowl) Of course all this time to NJ it says "we love our home state of NJ", while under their breath saying "we're just too ashamed to let the rest of the country know we play here." They make their Super Bowl and opening season announcements in NY. Now they want a new stadium, saying that NJ has an agreement with that we must keep them in a state-of-an-art facility. Codey cuts a deal with them and then goes on record saying it won't cost NJ taxes payers anything because the Giants are picking up the tab. Now let's look closely at this tab they're picking up...

NJ forgives 126 Million dollars in debt
NJ pays for 30 million dollars in infrastructure improvements
Giants collect all profits from concerts or any events at the stadium (which currently NJ gets)
Giants get to have Xanadu shut down during home games (still in negotiation and waiting to be announced)
Giants get the money from selling the naming rights to the new stadium
Giants pay for the stadium

For all this - New Jersey gets a measly FIVE Million dollars a year in lease payments on PRIME real estate.

Then to top it all off, the Giants had the nerve to make their announcement saying "we are so happy to be staying in New Jersey" all the while with NY plastered on the banner behind them. I was just waiting for Codey to bring out a silver platter with the deed to NJ on it and hand it to the Giants.(Oh wait, by the way some NJ politicians act, they already gave New Jersey's deed to NY) This is the problem with New Jersey, the roll over attitude of our politicians. The fact that there seems to be no one that stands up for NJ. Where were the Giants going to go? They had no where to go. NY doesn't want to build a stadium, that was demonstrated with the fiasco with the Jets (who after all their bad mouthing of NJ, is now in negotiations with the Giants to play in the new Giants Stadium) As I state on the AboutNewJersey.com messageboard, you know who are the smart ones - NY. They don't pay for a stadium - but they get all the publicity. No matter where I have been in the US, people either think that Giants stadium is in NY or they think that ALL of New Jersey is in NY. That is no joke.

Another example of NJ selling out is demonstrated by something I just found out with Liberty State Park. I was talking to park official about how the vendors there only sell NY merchandise and how it's our most visited state park, but we don't utilize it to advertise NJ. He then proceeded to ask me if I ever looked at one of the vendors sales slips and noticed the sales tax. I hadn't because I refuse to buy any "NY" merchandise in NJ (I have gone up to them and asked them where the New JERSEY merchandise is though). I was shocked when he told me they charge 8.5% tax and the money goes to New YORK. I aksed him twice, because I found it so unbelievable. Supposedly some deal was worked out with NY. WHY? What is NY doing collecting sales tax in OUR state park? I keep hoping he has it confused with Liberty Island or maybe even Ellis Island. I will have to check this out myself - but to be honest, it will not surprise me if it's true. We're the state that sells NY merchandise in out Turnpike reststops - but finding New Jersey items is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Another problem is this north/south divide that exists in this state. Now this obviously will be much harder to change, but it exists and it is a festering problem. New Jersey does not act like a state, it acts like a bunch of little fiefdoms and that is destroying New Jersey. We need politicians who will make New Jerseyans feel proud to say "we're New Jerseyans", who won't roll over and just accept the negative stereotypical comments that are repeatedly said about this state from outsiders. New Jersey should be proud and what New Jersey needs is a governor who will make New Jerseyans proud. We need a change of attitude in this state. We need outsiders to respect us and before that can happen - we need to respect ourselves!

Sincerely,



Robert Rosetta


I wonder what the response will be. Believe me - I could have written a whole book about how incompetent the politicians are in New Jersey. The sad thing is that New Jersey is a democracy - so the fault lies in the people electing them.

Eric Stephenson
09-29-2005, 06:46 AM
I agree with you that I would like to see Forrester in office and not Corzine.

Actually, I should probably state it more properly:

I want to see anybody in office who's last name is not Corzine!

The way he literally bought the Senate Seat a couple of years ago really disgusted me.

Unfortunately, I think he is going to do the same thing again.

Somebody told me a long time ago there was some thought given to splitting the state in half and making it North Jersey and South Jersey as official states.

I wish they would, there is such a disparity between the two halves of the state in politics, values, ideas and just about everything else.

Well's that my $0.02 worth anyway!

JerseyDevil
10-05-2005, 12:21 AM
Just for an update here - no word from the Forrester camp at all on this. Bill said he talked to the Forrester campaign and that I should be receiving a phone call. So much for that. :roll: I am really fed up with NJ politicians who just want to talk about the same old crap and really think we are idiots.

Of course I think Doug Forrester is better than Jon Corzine - but I don't even know what Forrester is going to do. Now he says that he's going to have a Constitutional Amendment to guarantee that his Property Tax relief stays in place and that future politicians can't raise it back up. Does he think that New Jerseyans are idiots? (Well of course the majority did vote for Jim McGreevey, so maybe that isn't a good question to ask :roll: ) But anyway - he can't just MAKE a consitutional amendment, it has to be voted on. He has no control over that. Only people who know nothing about how the government works would be fooled into believing that politicians can do half the things they promise they will do.

Side note to Eric- I think politicians should be working to join NJ together - not split us into two different states. I know this has been an issue before. I think it even went up for a vote in south Jersey in the 70's or 80's that they wanted to split off. I think it would be terrible for NJ though. I've seen on other messageboards where NYers are talking about annexing northern NJ (of course they throw in their snide comments about which parts they don't want) - and that that's basically what would happen. North Jersey would simply become part of NY state and south Jersey would become part of PA. We've fought too hard throughout our history to let that happen.

davegering
10-05-2005, 04:51 AM
Its hard to choose when both Candidates commercial tell us how bad the other guy is and not what they will do for the state. Where is Jessie Ventura when we need him

JerseyDevil
10-05-2005, 08:25 AM
Its hard to choose when both Candidates commercial tell us how bad the other guy is and not what they will do for the state. Where is Jessie Ventura when we need him
Well I agree, except for the Ventura part, because I don't think he ended up being a good governor. I find Corzine's commercials laughable though. Yesterday I was on my way to Wegman's in West Windsor and there was a Corzine commercial on the radio. It started out talking about how bad Forrester was, with the cliched foreboding music in the background. Then they started talking about all the "great" things Corzine was going to do and there was this music impling paradise. I could almost hear the spring flowers blooming and the birds singing. I had to start to laugh, I thought it was hilarious. I suppose campaigns really think we're morons and that we don't see through these cheap tricks. The sad thing is I'm sure they do affect some people's perception through the background music, instead of actually having to say anything.

Anyway Bill just called me, so I'm hoping he's right with what he said. I just don't see a very big difference right now. I really would like to know what Forrester plans to do, beside the same old tired promises that every campaign says.

Some of the things I brought up were the Giants and Jets, minimum wage and how it affects the seasonal tourism industry, the foreign exhange workers and how the amusement parks and attractions have to do all this work to get their visas and sponsor them, but once they land at Newark Liberty, they can go off and work anywhere. Finally I mentioned the broadcasting issue - or lack thereof in NJ. To me this is a major issue too. I talked about the ridiculous tourism commercials, the laughable welcome signs into the state and the fact that if you drive along the turnpike and stop at the rest areas they sell NY crap. A lot of this stemmed from us discussing how people outside NJ does not associate NJ with amuseument parks, the reolutionary war, museums or anything like that.

I would like to get a clear idea on where Forrester stands on many of these issues. They may seem small, but these are the things that need to be taken care of to change the way people feel about NJ. I asked him, we had the 225th Monmouth Battlefield several years ago - huge huge event, what did NJ do to promote it? Absolutely ZERO. There wasn't even a sign on Rt 33 letting people know what was going on. If that was Indiana, Oregon, or any other state - they would have had a banner out there and there would have been tv commercials. New Jersey is laughable when it comes to promoting itself and no wonder people, within and without have no idea what NJ has or what it's like.

There was one thing recently that happened which was positive, NJ Tourism finally stopped having the phone calls handled by prison inmates when potential visitors would call up for information. :roll: yes, all these years when people would call up and ask for a visitors guide and so forth, they would get the jail and their phone call would be handled by someone in an orange jumpsuit. I'm not sure what brainiac felt it would be good customer service to have phone calls of potential visitors being handled by prisoners. Believe me - I used to call up the NJ Information line and many times it was just "yeah?, what can I do for you?"

I hope that if Doug Forrester gets in that many of this stuff will change. I'm pretty sure that if Jon Corzine gets in - it will just be the same old same old.

Eric Stephenson
10-06-2005, 08:42 AM
Unfortunately I don't see that Forrester even has a chance at this election.

Corzine will outspend him 100 to 1 just like he did in the Senatorial race. Between that and all the huge North Jersey Democratic machine he's about to make his next stop on the way to a Presidential Race.

How the heck did we elect a New York Businessman who doesn't know squat about NJ in general and South Jersey in particular?

I don't know that Forrester is going to be any better but it really irks me when somebody tires to buy/steal my vote with flashy campaigns and a thousand mudslinging ad a day.

JerseyDevil
10-06-2005, 11:28 PM
How the heck did we elect a New York Businessman who doesn't know squat about NJ in general and South Jersey in particular?
The same way we let the Giants and Jets wear NY on their uniforms, allow airlines to put NY on their ticket stubs or declare they are flying into NY. No one seems to care about having a New Jerseyan REPRESENT New Jersey interests. Jon Corzine and Rush Holt (US Representative for my district) are always so busy fighting for national issues, instead of figting for things that actually affects NJ. The only time they seem to come out, is when it's campaign season.

Case in point, I'm on the board for an Historical Revolutionary War organization, and Rush Holt has basically ignored us and given us lip service. But my god, when we had famous pulitzer prizing winning author come out to do a talk and book signing, then Rush came out of the woodwork and wanted us to put out all HIS literature. Needless to say we refused. He hasn't lifted a finger to support us, but then he expected us to do his campaigning for him when we were drawing a large crowd. I've seen Rush Holt at events, and the only thing he is there for is to ACT like he cares. Basically he comes, shakes some hands, gives his speech, gives an interview and leaves. It's like a tornado coming through. He doesn't even pay attention to what people tell him. As a for instance, prior to him coming onto the battlefield the one time to give a speech on endangered NJ Revolutionary War sites, we provided him with a lot of background information concerning the battle and it's importance. We attempted to set up a meeting with him or his aid repeatedly, we would have it scheduled and then they wouldn't show up or they would cancel at the last minute. Then after the speech when we got to talk him, he knew nothing about the battlefield. It was a complete waste to send him any information at all. All he kept saying over and over again were the stupid "sound bite" statements. My impression of Jon Corzine is that he's the same way. He doesn't care about the constituents of New Jersey, he just wants to get elected so he can work on his national crusades.

People have to remember, our representatives are there to represent us, not NY, California, PA, or ay other state. They are elected by New Jerseyans to fight for NJ and we don't hold our elected officials to this requirement.

JerseyDevil
10-10-2005, 10:20 PM
For those who missed the debates - you can watch them on NJN news - 2005 NJ Gubernatorial Debate (http://www.njn.net/television/webcast/decision05gubernatorialdebate.html)

I still don't agree with Forrester's position on the Devils Arena.

JerseyDevil
10-17-2005, 05:15 PM
Google just did their reindexing and this thread comes up on the second page in a google search for Doug Forrester (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=doug+forrester&btnG=Search) and the top of the 4th page for Jon Corzine (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=jon+corzine&btnG=Search) now. :D

I'm really surprised that more of a discussion hasn't develop here. I know that a ton of people view the thread, but they don't post.

Tomorrow Tuesday October 18th - is the second Gubernatorial debates which wll be on ABC - both Philadelphia and NY (I hate not having our own networks) at 7:00pm. These debates will feature all four candidates - instead of just Jon Corzine and Doug Forrester like the NJN debates did.

JerseyDevil
10-18-2005, 09:17 PM
On November 3rd News 12 New Jersey will be having the thrid debate. I recorded tonights debate and will have to rewatch it. I just don't trust Corzine at all. I don't particularly think that Forrester is the best either. Of course you can't find someone that you agree with completely - because there is always something that you an find to disagree with.

There was one thing that disturbed me and that was Corzines comment about the Constitution. Of course it's a living document - but the founding father's gave the STATES the power to change it - not the US Supreme Court. I realize that the question was regarding the state consitution, but he also made reference to the US Constitution. He seems not to care too much about the checks and balances of the federal government (as long as they support his views of course) - or state rights and that bothers me.

Eric Stephenson
10-19-2005, 07:25 AM
Devil,

I agree with you that I don't really trust/agree with either candidate but I gotta say that I also agree with you about Corzine.

He just seems slimy somehow.

His comments almost made it sound like "The Constituation is great as long as I can make it agree with my liberal agenda" and if he can't twist/distort it to say that then "It's a living Document" or "the Founding Fathers could never have anticipated this" type of thing.

I just saw a new Corzine commercial that I think is going to backfire on him.

It's the one where there is kind of a split screen and they are talking about "which candidate reflects our values?"

Of course they go after the mose volatile three:

Stem Cell
Abortion
Gun Control

Corzine supports Stem Cell Research, Pro-Choice & a total Ban on Guns.

Big Bad Forrester agrees with our Commander-in-Chief and opposes Stem Cell Research, is Pro-Life and opposes more laws on guns.

They of course didn't mention any of the details of either candidates stance, just that one is for and one is against.

If Forrester is smart he will use that to his advantage and take a stand and reflect the Republican party stance on these topics instead of trying to be a left-leaning Republican.

JerseyDevil
10-25-2005, 12:20 PM
Protecting Environmental, Cultural and Historical Places and Promoting Vital Industry in New Jersey

According to the Commerce, Economic Growth and Tourism Commission, the travel and tourism industry generates $30 billion in economic activity each year and provides 416,000 jobs, making it the second largest private sector employer in New Jersey. Last year, tourism activity generated $2.9 billion in State and local government revenues, accounted for $1.7 billion in State tax revenue and $1.2 billion in local government tax revenue.

More than 65 million people visited New Jersey in 2003. Tourists relaxed on the beaches of the Shore, listened to concerts at such premier facilities as the New Jersey Performing Arts Center in Newark and the Tweeter Center in Camden, searched for antique treasures in Lambertville, admired stately Victorian homes in Cape May, tried their luck at the world class casino hotels of Atlantic City, and followed the story of our Nation’s founding at historical sites from Washington’s Headquarters at Morristown to the battlefield at Monmouth, to the Old Barracks of Trenton.

A vibrant tourism industry not only provides memorable experiences for visitors, it also offers quality of life benefits for State residents. New Jersey’s diverse array of tourism attractions fulfills the recreational, cultural and entertainment needs of State residents.

Promote Tourism, Not Politics – Former Governor Jim McGreevey spent nearly $8 million on television advertisements designed to promote his political career, and not New Jersey’s tourist attractions. Doug Forrester will put an end to this wasteful and ineffective use of tourism promotion monies.

New Jersey tourism will be marketed in the Forrester Administration through a program that is consistent in message, appeals to people outside New Jersey, and showcases the State’s scenic beauty, historic and cultural institutions, recreations opportunities, and broad array of vacation experiences.

Direct New York City/Atlantic City Rail Service -- The opening of new hotels, entertainment venues and shops has spurred redevelopment efforts in Atlantic City. The State can enhance these efforts further through the establishment of a direct rail link between New York City and Atlantic City. The new rail link could provide a new, market-driven means to transport casino patrons to the east coast’s premiere gaming area.

The New Jersey Transit (NJT) Atlantic City Line runs from the Atlantic City Rail Terminal to the 30th Street Station in Philadelphia. The Atlantic City Line can be linked to the NJT Northeast Corridor using an Amtrak line that currently runs between 30th Street Station and Trenton. NJT currently runs passenger rail service on that section of Amtrak line.

Once linked, tourists could take a train from Atlantic City to Newark. If dual-mode diesel and electric trains were employed, a passenger could take a seamless rail ride from New York City’s Pennsylvania Station to Atlantic City.

Tourism Marketing Plan -- New Jersey’s Tourism Master Plan has not been updated since 1997, and the time has come to contract with outside marketing experts to create a new plan that is designed to market New Jersey as a tourism destination. The plan would identify target geographic markets for the purpose of marketing New Jersey as a destination; develop a plan for “branding” of the State as a destination; and develop an overall advertising strategy using national, regional and international publications and communications.

Tourism Research & Database -- A Research Bureau should be created in the Office of Travel and Tourism to provide ongoing research into the travel and tourism market. In order to ensure the ongoing effectiveness of the State marketing activities, the research bureau would create a database in cooperation with the hospitality and lodging industries and individual tourist attractions. The research bureau would seek to identify travelers by such factors as age, interests, travel goals, and identify core geographic markets for New Jersey tourism.

Interactive Travel Information Kiosks – A public/private partnership should be created to implement a system of improved interactive travel kiosks and wireless access for business travelers at the State’s 17 welcome centers and major transportation and tourism-related facilities. The kiosks will provide tourists with web-based, real time information about destinations, accommodations, as well as weather and travel bulletins. The technology involved is no more complicated than a typical desktop computer.

Kiosks of this type have been used with success by the State of New York in the Adirondack region during the early 1990’s. An effective kiosk system was created in Atlanta, Georgia, for the 1996 Summer Olympics, and it remains in operation today, providing 130 kiosks throughout Georgia. The Wisconsin Department of Transportation has created a design manual for travel information kiosks at part of that state’s intelligent transportation system. In addition, the State of Montana has established kiosks along the Lewis and Clark National Historic Trail, while Arizona has planned there introduction along the federal Interstate Highway I-40 corridor.

Uniform Tourism Signage – Given the economic benefits of tourism to the State economy, the State must aggressively improve highway signage for tourism destination in order to make New Jersey's attractions convenient and accessible. Although signage has improved in recent years, an aggressively implemented and consistently-maintained system of tourism signage for the broad range of vacation activities should be implemented.

Investments in Tourism Infrastructure – In order to ensure the State’s tourism economy can thrive and compete with other states, the State must wisely invest in the infrastructure that makes travel convenient. When State authorities use monies designated for tourism promotion on projects of dubious tourism value, such as the construction of parking garage at Cooper Hospital, it hurts the ability of New Jersey to compete for tourism dollars, especially when projects such as parking improvements at the Atlantic City International Airport and improvements to the Exit 17 interchange on the Atlantic City Expressway are not fully funded as a consequence.


There are several things in here that are missing. What about the fact that NJ allows NY items to be predomently sold at our rest stops or Liberty State Park which get 2 million visitors a year? What about sports teams which carry NY on their uniforms or the brochure display racks along the turnpike which carry mostly NY and PA brochures. This is a serious problem with advertsing NJ within our own state.

I also find this to be very Atlantic City centric. Now I recognize that AC holds the biggest piece of the tourism pie in NJ, but what about utilizing Atlantic City - as well as the shore in general - to promote the rest of the state. There are more than enough visitors and potential visitors to NJ to go around - without NJ resorting to the petty competition among the different regions it finds it self in right now.

JerseyDevil
10-26-2005, 11:15 PM
Here is something I found while searching the web. Even though it was from the senate race I thought it was funny. The site is no longer viewable though - it's cached on google.



TOP TEN OPTIONS FOR NEW JERSEY DEMOCRATS...



1) Have Senator Frank Lautenberg run an aggressive write-in campaign with unions equally aggressively giving out cards to help Democrats spell the name "Lautenberg".

2) Ask Senator Robert Torricelli to go beyond withdrawing to commit suicide so that he can get more votes dead than alive. This is otherwise known as the Hawaiian "Patsy Mink" strategy allowing the governor to appoint a replacement after the dead candidate wins. This has already worked in Missouri. Early indications were that Torricelli rejected this idea even with the offer of more jewelry and a nice suit for his funeral.

3) Have Senator Frank Lautenberg change his name to Robert Torricelli, jr. in a Democratic act of bonding so that no change of listing is necessary.

4) Get the New Jersey state Democrats to claim that they were all dyslexic and that the "51" day limit was really supposed to be "15" days.

5) Pay to have the next four Soprano shows redone so that Senator Torricelli can take his rightful place as the political crook character with ties to the mob. In a story twist, after therapy, James Gandolfini’s Tony Soprano decides to run himself for Senator as a populist Democratic write-in candidate.

6) If a change in the listed candidate is not allowed, move to have an aggressive write-in campaign with Senator Lautenberg changing his name to "X" so that most Democrats will not misspell his name.

7) If more votes are needed, use strategy #6 but use the name "XXX" to bring in the extreme sport and drinking crowd to join the liberal New Jersey geriatrics.

8) Consider sending powdered sugar to three polling places in Trenton the day before the election to allow the New Jersey Governor to heroically reschedule the election with a chance to replace the Democratic candidate.

9) Call Republicans anti-choice, anti-New Jersey, war loving, union busting, right wing extremists on every talk show and news broadcast until Republicans cave in, raise the white flag and allow the ballots to be changed without a whimper. There is no problem in doing this for fun whether it works or not!

And finally, their first choice that worked without a hitch…

1) Do a quick end run to the New Jersey Supreme Court where our Democratic leaning and contributing judges can invalidate state law and avoid having our Democrats to have to spell Lautenberg to exercise their right of voter choice.

JerseyDevil
11-01-2005, 03:27 PM
For Corzine being such a business person he is very anti-business - at least in terms of small business and entrepreneurs. According to Vote Smart (http://www.vote-smart.org), Corzine voted against most small business and consumer interests (http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=MNJ58252&type=category&category=Business%2Band%2BConsumers&go.x=10&go.y=12). Interesting enough - he also voted AGAINST most government reform (http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=MNJ58252&type=category&category=Government%2BReform&go.x=7&go.y=17) - so how is he going to reform NJ's government, since he obviously has no desire to reform the US Government.

Regrettably since Forrester hasn't been a senator, he has no voting record on Vote Smart.

McGreevey has already made NJ a very anti-business state, so do we really want someone who is obviously against new businesses? I guess he has his money already and is a multi-millionaire - so he doesn't want anyone else to have what he enjoys now. To be honest, the democratic party seems to be more interested in keeping people reliant on the government, than giving people the skills to make themselves self reliant. I guess if they allowed people to stand on their own two feet they would end up putting themselves (the politicians) out of a job. Which is funny - when the nation was founded we weren't supposed to have lifetime politicians. I am also concerned with how much Corzine supports NJ and whether his true goal is just to run for president.

I'm a federalist, I believe in state rights and a small federal government. The US does NOT have a national government, most of the power rests in the states and laws are controlled by the individual states. Corzine seems to believe in only national issues and the elimination of the states. He worries more about what is happening in California and the western national parks, than what is happening to out state parks, such as Princeton Battlefield.

BTW - I still haven't voted in this poll. To be honest, I don't like either candidate. What my vote is basically coming down to is that I know Corzine's record and I don't trust him to be a governor for New Jersey.

JerseyDevil
11-02-2005, 07:13 PM
It doesn't seem as if News 12 NJ has a third debate scheduled anymore. I haven't been able to find anymore information on it since the time of seeing it mentioned on News 12 when I posted about it. If anyone else knows anything about it, please post it.

JerseyDevil
11-04-2005, 05:21 PM
Well let the count down begin, ONLY 4 days to go till election day November 8, 2005. The election has really gotten nasty - but I think the media is overblowing it. Don't they ALWAYS say every election that "this" is the nastiest election ever. So here we are again and this is now the nastiest. Basically I think media fans the flames just so they have good news stories. Instead of concentrating on issues, the media themselves like to feed off the dirt.

It still bugs me that NJ doesn't have it's own networks. It really makes it difficult for many people to really know the candidates, not to mention keeping Trenton in line.

davegering
11-04-2005, 07:31 PM
I noticed both candidates have called out the big guns it seems like it is CLINTON vs GUILIANNI

JerseyDevil
11-05-2005, 01:39 PM
well I have one thing to say now - I think Corzine bought the election. I was just on rt 1 and there is a huge billboard with Corzine's face on it - declaring "Quiet Strength. Strong Leadership". I want to know where in Congress he has ever taken a leadership role? If he hasn't - then how is he a strong leader? Where has he actually demonstrated his leadership. We know he can outspend anyone who tries to run against him - that's the same way with Holt.

I also found it ironic last night, there was Corzine commercial after Corzine commercial, all negatve attack ads against Forrester, but nothing about him. Then after about five commercials - then came the kicker - critizing Forrester about his attack ads and saying that Forrester doesn't want to talk about the issues and only attack. I found it hilarious and ironic since on every commercial break there was a Corzine attack ad against Forrester, and then a commercial where Corzine tries to take the high road. :roll:

I just can't wait until November 8th is over with. I don't see why anyone would want to run for office in NJ. So many people say I should run for political office, and I often think about it. The thing is, instead of just working for NJ, it's all about dragging your opponent through the mud, and then I'm sure with Corzine's case, basically just using it as a stepping stone for the presidency. I want someone who has their eyes on helping NJ and ONLY New Jersey while they are governor. That is why we elect our officials. We have too many politicians who worry about national issues and how that will affect them, instead of what will actually make NJ a better state. I honestly think that Forrester would work for New Jersey, whereas I think Corzine just has his eyes on the presidency.

JerseyDevil
11-05-2005, 07:23 PM
Well there was another debate on tonight - NBC out of NY. It seems tomorrow that it mght be repeated in the morning on the NBC Philadelphia station (9:00am - 10:00am). I only caught the tail end of it (the last 20 minutes).

The debate was set up in a conversational, sit at a round table across form each other with moderator style. The part that they were discussing whch I came in on was about whether a candidate for governor of NJ should be worrying about national issues or be concentrating on NJ issues. Corzine basically expressed that it was important for the governor to look at national issues, while Forrester said the responsibilty of the governor was to look out for NJ and if the national issue wasn't about NJ - then the governor shouldn't be involved with it. The key national issue that was used as a demonstration was homeland security funds. Corzine wanted to look at the fact that New Jersey wasn't getting it's fair share from the federal government, while Forrester pointed out, how could the governor of NJ fight for more funs and be taken seriously when NJ squandered so much of those funds. McGreevey had sent the homeland security funds to the cities and towns who supported him, and then Newark wasted the funds on garbage trucks. Forrester pointed out that the governor should fight for more funds for NJ of course - but the governor also has a responsibilty to make sure the funds that are reecieved are used properly and not as payoffs for support.

JerseyDevil
11-05-2005, 10:33 PM
Okay - this is just ridiculous. Channel 7 ABC News NY just had on highlights from the debate. Corzine was taken off guard about the legal drinking age. He didn't know what it was and he thought it was 18 years old. How can you be a politician and not know how the Federal Government, congress in particular, forced the states to raise the drinking age to 21 by threatening to withhold federal highway funds to any state who didn't raise it. :roll:

I do disagree with Forresters answer that he doesn't support lowering the drinking age. I think it should be 18. All it has done is increase the age where people binge drink - which when you think about it when people are in college - with even less parental guidance. At least with 18 - parents are still involved and can provide some control over the drinking. If you can fight in war, or vote - you should be responsiible enough to drink.

I still can't get over that Corzine had no idea what the drinking age was though.

[edit] My cousin found the gubernatorial debates on NBC so people who want can watch them (note you'll have to shut off any pop-up blockers which I hate)



Accusations Fly In N.J. Gubernatorial Debate (http://www.wnbc.com/politics/5246637/detail.html)
One Shows Dead Heat

POSTED: 11:57 pm EST November 3, 2005
UPDATED: 10:29 pm EST November 5, 2005

WOODBRIDGE, N.J. -- With the New Jersey governor's race reaching new levels of acrimony in the home stretch, the two major candidates faced off on live television Saturday night, addressing the sleazy turn the campaign has taken.

Sitting across a small table from each other in the WNBC Channel 4 studios, U.S. Sen. Jon Corzine and businessman Doug Forrester were asked right off to talk about the ugly tone of the contest.

"I think we have a great opportunity tonight to give viewers a break on the negative tone that has surrounded the last few weeks of the campaign," Corzine said.

The two then traded barbs and accusations for the next 25 minutes before discussing any substantive issues.

Host Gabe Pressman played negative television commercials from each campaign, then asked the candidate to explain the disparaging ad.

One ad from the Forrester camp quotes Corzine's ex-wife from a story in Wednesday's New York Times. "All I could think was that Jon did let his family down, and he'll probably let New Jersey down, too" Joanne Corzine told the newspaper.

Corzine reiterated his assertion that his former marriage is not appropriate fodder for the campaign.

"I'll leave it for Mr. Forrester to describe why ... I think it speaks more to his character than it does about mine," he said.

"Well, senator, all this ad is is a quote from the front page of the New York Times where your wife thought it was important to come and identify certain things about public policy and principle," Forrester said.

The debate, the fifth and final face-to-face showdown of the campaign, capped a nasty week on the trail in which the candidates spent millions knocking each other with negative ads and each fielded questions about unsubstantiated rumors.

Earlier in the day, Corzine made a campaign sweep through northern New Jersey early Saturday, while Forrester held a noon rally on the Statehouse steps in Trenton.

During a Statehouse rally that drew about 50 people, Forrester accepted the endorsement of Mothers Against Violence, a Trenton-based group trying to call attention to violence against children.

Kathy McBride, the group's president, described herself as a devout Democrat who would vote for Forrester because she believed he would help reduce violence in urban areas.

Forrester pledged to provide alternatives to incarceration.

"It is so important that we have an opportunity to rebuild the cities with small businesses, with those transitional jobs for people who can come out of a corrections facility and get a job," said Forrester, who added that the solution is not just law enforcement, but education.

At a 60 to 70-person rally for Corzine in Jersey City's Liberty State Park, about two dozen organizations representing 3 million workers and members of environmental, women's and gay rights groups showed support for the senator.

Corzine spoke of his concern for working families and promised to refund the state funds for transportation and education and to protect pensions for working people.

When asked afterward about the negativity in the race and whether it might turn New Jerseyans off even after the election is over, Corzine said he is only focused on the future.

"It's disappointing where the race went in the last week," Corzine said. "Elections are about the future and that's what I'm going to stay talking about for the next three days."

On Friday, Forrester denied reporters' questions over whether he had an extramarital affair. Corzine also rebutted unfounded allegations about sexual indiscretions, saying rumors that he had a sexual relationship with a former staffer were "not true."

On Saturday, Corzine drew on some Democratic star power, with U.S. Sen. Ted Kennedy joining him for a morning labor union rally in Paramus. Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean also campaigned across the state to raise support for the party.

Corzine and Forrester -- both multimillionaires -- have already spent a combined $70 million on the race, making it the most pricey in state history. And while the issues ostensibly are combatting high property taxes and political corruption, the money itself has mostly gone toward negative television advertising.

With the election only days away, new polls indicate the race is becoming tighter as well as more vicious. A Fairleigh Dickinson University-PublicMind poll released Friday indicated the race was too close to call and that favorable ratings of both candidates were declining.

The latest WNBC/Marist poll out Saturday night found Corzine was favored by 48 percent while Forrester was backed by 42 percent, with 10 percent undecided. The sampling for this poll was done Thursday and Friday.

That came one day after WNBC/Marist showed the race had tightened between Wednesday and Thursday as the new Forrester ad debuted, with the senator's apparent lead trimmed to show the two men about even on Thursday. About three-quarters of registered voters told WNBC/Marist they felt the ad was unfair and about the same number said it would make no difference in their decisions Tuesday.

A WNBC/Marist poll showed a change between Wednesday and Thursday as the new Forrester ad debuted, with the senator's apparent lead trimmed to show the two men about even on Thursday. About three-quarters of registered voters told WNBC/Marist they felt the ad was unfair and about the same number said it would make no difference in their decisions Tuesday.

The most recent Quinnipiac University poll puts Corzine's lead at 12 percentage points.

Corzine and Forrester both had big plans for Sunday.

Corzine planned to campaign across the state with popular Illinois Sen. Barack Obama. The two were to begin their day attending services at Shiloh Baptist Church in Trenton before attending rallies in five cities: West Long Branch, Edison, Newark, Paterson and Hackensack.

Forrester, who campaigned with former Gov. Tom Kean on Saturday, planned to meet with voters at several sites across the state before ending his day at a rally in Monmouth County.


Couple of observations on the first part of the debate...

Corzine is very defensive and he only talks about national issues he dealt with in the senate. What did he do for NEW JERSEY while he was there? He's supposed to be representing us, so why doesn't he talk abtu anything he did for the CITIZENS of New Jersey? Could it be because he hasn't done anything for us, but only worried about national issues? No wonder why NJ is one of the state that gives the most money to the federal government, but gets back the least in return. :roll: Another thing that bothers me is thet Corzine keeps saying how the NY Times supports him as governor. I don't really care that a NY newspaper supports him for governor. Again - what about New Jersey? He also mentioned how the Philadelphia Inquirer supported him. I didn't know Philadelphia or NY had a vote in our elections? maybe we should go and ask California what they think and who they support for New JERSEY'S governor?

Forrester seems much more cool and collected than Corzine.

BTW - the drinking age confussion is in beginning of part 3. Corzine recovers himself and says he supports lowering the drinking age, while Forrester doesn't. However Corzine supports a statewide ban on smoking. I don't support that - I say let the market forces decide whether restaurants choose to go no smoking or allow smoking. I don't see where the government has to get involved. The Princetonian Diner on Rt 1 voluntarily went "no smoking" and have a huge banner outside declaring this fact. They must have decided it's good for business.

The issue of stem cells came up and Corzine supports government FUNDING for stem cells. I however don't and it has nothing to do with moral issues. I just don't think the government should be involved in science. I think the science community should be free to determine what the BEST research is.

Generally what strikes me as the difference between the two candidates - and I've said this before - Forrester talks more about NJ, improving NJ, being PROUD to be a New Jerseyan, while Corzine worries about national issues and obviously what foreign newspapers (Philadelphia Inquirer and NY Times) think of him. I'm sorry - I want someone who is going to do something for NJ.

After watching the three debates and looking at the candidates. I will now vote in the poll and be completely comfortable when I go to the voting booth on Tuesday.

MITHRANDIR
11-06-2005, 03:09 PM
I noticed both candidates have called out the big guns it seems like it is CLINTON vs GUILIANNI

A preview of a future election? ;)

JerseyDevil
11-06-2005, 04:08 PM
A preview of a future election? ;)
Off topic - but I'm hoping for Hlllary vs Condi. I don't think Guilliani would win the Republican nomination.

JerseyDevil
11-07-2005, 04:04 PM
Well tomorrow is election day. I hope everyone wil get out and vote. I won't say how to vote, that is up to everyone else and what is important to them. I know what is important to me and that is making NJ the best state in the nation and fighting for the rights of New Jersey and New Jerseyans.

davegering
11-07-2005, 04:07 PM
Or is that New Jerseyites :)

JerseyDevil
11-07-2005, 04:11 PM
Or is that New Jerseyites :)
You're itching for a banning. ;)

MITHRANDIR
11-08-2005, 12:10 AM
Well tomorrow is election day. I hope everyone wil get out and vote. I won't say how to vote, that is up to everyone else and what is important to them. I know what is important to me and that is making NJ the best state in the nation and fighting for the rights of New Jersey and New Jerseyans.


In theory that is what all the politicians should be doing. Making things the best that they can for the people they represent. (In this case it is for NJ)

Please everyone go out and vote today.

JerseyDevil
11-08-2005, 09:50 AM
In theory that is what all the politicians should be doing. Making things the best that they can for the people they represent. (In this case it is for NJ)

Yes - in theory, but it seems like NJ has a history of politicians who sell NJ out to the highest bidder. Either that, or we also have a set of politicians who concentrate on national issues and then claim that they're working for NJ. When a state has the highest median income, and it's representative is voting for tax increases for the "wealthy" - then they're working AGAINST the state. What is considered wealthy in NJ is a far cry from what is considered wealthy in Indiana or Mississippi.

JerseyDevil
11-08-2005, 12:30 PM
Well today is election day. I will be going around 2:00 after the lunchhour rush, but before the on the way home rush. :)

It sort of bugs me how the media tries to make this a national referendum on the federal government - and in particular what people think about George Bush. I mean come on, Bush lost NJ, so if Forreter loses to Corzine how is that necessarily an indication that people didn't vote for Forrester because of Bush? Might it just indicate that NJ is a left leaning state - which it is and has nothing to do with Bush? If Bloomberg wins the NY Mayoral race - does that mean that that is a sign of support for Bush? Hardly! But the media likes to read into everything and ignores certain facts, such as all politics are local. I look at different issues based on whether it's a national or a state election. Whether it's govenor, congressman or president, each has a different responsibilty and role within government and has different agendas. When a presidential candidate goes on and on about an issue which is not under the presidential juristidiction, but falls under congress or the states, I ignore it. I know that they have no say in that issue and its stupid for them to even waste time talking about it. I find that not enough people really understand the different roles and just lumps everyone under "politician" That's how we get politicians in Congress who work for national agendas - instead of fighting for and representing NJ in the federal government.

davegering
11-08-2005, 02:22 PM
The Corzine crew stopped in the JERSEY! store today and spent 250 dollars on Lapel Pins. When will the spending stop. Also the only place they could find them was at the airport.

JerseyDevil
11-08-2005, 03:06 PM
The Corzine crew stopped in the JERSEY! store today and spent 250 dollars on Lapel Pins. When will the spending stop. Also the only place they could find them was at the airport.
Well you wouldn't expect them to find them any place else - like maybe the New JERSEY Turnpike rest stops. Of course not there - they sell only NY crap there. He couldn't go to Liberty State Park - again - only NY junk there. So he had to go to the ONE TRUE 100% nothing but New JERSEY store at Newark Liberty International Airport.

BTW - if they were SO supportive of New Jersey like they claim - don't you think they would have already HAD New Jersey lapel pins? :roll:

Also - I hope you told him about AboutNewJersey.com and what is discussed on this forum. :D I tell people about your store all the time - you need to return the favor. :p

JerseyDevil
11-08-2005, 03:46 PM
I'm fed up with getting these phone calls from the Corzine campaign. For the last 5 days - Ive been getting call after call. The other day I got three calls one after another. It's frigging annoying. We have a NO call list and I know it doesn't apply to politicians - but the thing is it shows how little respect they have if they can't voluntarily abide by the No Call list. I just got another phone call from "Bill Clinton". This is the second one today, I had gotten one previously in the morning. I had not gotten ONE fake phone call from Forrester's camp.

JerseyDevil
11-08-2005, 04:02 PM
BTW - I voted. I guess that's another reason why I'm pissed at the Corzine phone calls. Anyway I love election day. :D I stay glued to the tv the entre night watching the returns come in, seeing who is in the lead and what is happening. I think that New Jersey's will be close, but I have a feeling that Corzine will win. I don't have much faith in the New Jersey electorate to elect a competent governor. I mean come on - this is the same state that voted in McGreevey. :roll: I would think that after all the scandals of McGreevey that NJ would have welcomed a change, but it really seems like it will be business as usual. Here's hoping for the best though, keeping my fingers crossed and sitting on the edge of my seat, while biting my nails. :D

JerseyDevil
11-08-2005, 08:44 PM
Well the AP has declared Corzine the winner. If this is true - I really hope the majority of NJ voters knew what they were doing this time - unlike with McGreevey. I think it wil b more of the same, and not much fighting for NJ or working for NJ. Only time will tell.

Radiojoe315
11-08-2005, 09:16 PM
Looks like NJ has been blessed with 4 Years With Governor Balding! :-D

JerseyDevil
11-08-2005, 09:18 PM
Well it seems that it's over NJN, Millenium broadcasting and AP have all declared Corzine the winner. I was hoping for a more drawn out battle, but it seemed like it was just straight through for Corzine. I guess we'll see how the next 4 years go. I hope Corzine fights for NJ, I'm going to to keep an eye on him and make sure he does. Of course - if Forrester had won - I would have been feeling the same way and keeping an eye on him.

EDIT- Forrester is giving his concession speech. So the 2005 election is over. So now this thread will move over to talk about pst election soon and what will be important for Corzine to do to REALLY change NJ. Even though I didn't vote for Corzine - he is still my governor, along with all New Jerseyans. As with any politician, we need to make sure they work for our interests. NJ is a great state and I would like a governor who really works for the interests of New Jersey and not the interests of California, NY, sports teams who don't even want to be here, etc. We need a governor who will put New Jersey first. Even though I have my doubts on Corzine - I am hoping he will prove me wrong for the sake of New Jersey.

JerseyDevil
11-10-2005, 10:33 PM
Well the worst may be happening. It seems as if Corzine made a pledge to dismantle the Commerce, Econonmic Growth and Tourism Commission. No one knows what will happen to tourism. From what I gathered tonght the tourism industry is worried, wondering if right when they're getting some movement, that Corzien is going to pull the rug from under them. I wouldn't be surprised if Corzine doesn't see the benefits of tourism. I don't really think he cared much about NJ during the campaign, why would he now.

Also, I was watching NJN news tonight and they had Corzine on. I really honestly think he has absolutely NO plan on what he is going to do when he gets in office. He was just so inarticulare on what he was going to do, it was unbelievable. As I said earlier, we'll have to see if the majority of New Jerseyans gave us a good governor or another McGreevey. Right now it just seems like more of the same. :roll:

JerseyDevil
05-08-2009, 03:44 PM
With the Gubernatorial elections coming up, i wanted to bump this thread up. Remind people of what was Corzine promising. Ask yourself - how much ahs he accomplished in 4 years. I guess if you consider the government shutdown wtih all state agencies closed for 3 days and everything else as an accomplishment - then I guess you will be voting him back in office in November.

My cousin doesn't think that Corzine will get reelected. I don't have that much faith in the New Jersey voters though.

Oh wait - we have the 2nd Hudson Rail Tunnel (http://forum.aboutnewjersey.com/showthread.php?t=356) to export our jobs to NY and stimulate Manhattan's economy. Since when did New York City become part of New Jersey????